Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: x

“it was assumed that socialism meant state ownership of the means of production. By that standard Europe isn’t socialist.”

I beg to differ...

What does “own” mean? One of the dictionary definitions (which I argue is the applicable definition when you’re talking about the capitalist system of economics), is “To have control over.”

And clearly the Europeans and the US liberals exercise control over the means of production with their hare brained regulatory schemes, so in that sense, the government does own the means of production. Of course, they don’t exercise complete control over it, but in order to muck up the capitalist system, you don’t need to have complete control. All you’ve got to do is prevent the individual proprietors from running their businesses they way they want to in order to maximize their profits, and when you do that, you’ve effectively sabotaged the capitalist system as much as if you took complete control over the business.

I guarantee you that this is not lost on the Europeans. They understand that their systems are socialist.


188 posted on 11/03/2008 3:22:51 PM PST by Brilliant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies ]


To: Brilliant
Of course, they don’t exercise complete control over it, but in order to muck up the capitalist system, you don’t need to have complete control. All you’ve got to do is prevent the individual proprietors from running their businesses they way they want to in order to maximize their profits, and when you do that, you’ve effectively sabotaged the capitalist system as much as if you took complete control over the business.

True enough. But is what you get socialism or just a mucked-up capitalism? If you can't fix the economy, it may be socialism. If you can, is it still socialism? If Saab or Fiat turns a profit for its shareholders and competes with other manufacturers isn't what you have something different from a truly socialist society?

I guarantee you that this is not lost on the Europeans. They understand that their systems are socialist.

Take a good look at Volkswagen or BMW and then at Lada or at the Trabi makers. The products are different. The companies that made them are also different in kind. As are the societies that made those cars.

I can understand that the lines here aren't always clear. Maybe you can call Scandinavia socialist without the state owning everything. My point, though, was that you may want to call Germany or France socialist, but most informed people around when Romney was growing up wouldn't. They'd recognize that the difference between, say, East and West Germany, was greater than the difference between the US and West Germany.

195 posted on 11/03/2008 3:41:11 PM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 188 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson