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I told you in the begining that I've never been to school and that I grew up getting up in the morning to milk the family cow and feed the chickens. But when you mentioned the 150 miles an hour I went and check up on it and why shouldn't I be able to calculate the angular displacement? It's just light-time correction. (there may be some stellar aberration in there too but I didn't bother with that.)

LOL What you mean is that you cut and pasted a quote from somewhere on line. You don't have to keep repeating that you never went to school, stating the obvious is redundant.

Furthermore, I have not been able to find a single scientific report from anyone else that says there is a 2.1 degree apparent angular displacement of the suns position. So either you're making it up or you are the only person who knows about it. If you were the only scientist who know it, you'd say so -- and that way I would know why I couldn't find anyone else backing it up. But I think the answer is obvious: You made a claim in the beginning which was not true and you haven't the integrity to admit that you were wrong.

What was my untrue claim? I simply claimed that apparent position does not equal actual position. You are the one that tried to precisely determine how big the discrepancy was after you reluctantly agreed that there was a difference. I simply asked you to tell me 'when', admittedly it was a trick question : )

Am I wrong?

Yes. Why don't you do yourself a favor and pick up a good college level physics text book and study it. I promise you that it will change the way you see the world. Much of what 'appears' to be simply isn't that way at all : )

I have another dilemma for you. Lets say that you have two masses, each weighing a pound at rest. Now lets say that you accelerate them up to something approaching the speed of light and then slam them together in an inelastic collision so that they are now one mass at rest. How much does that mass weigh? -----Weighty pause---- If you think 2 pounds you would be wrong : ) It now weighs more than 2 pounds.

And no I am not going to do the math to show that either. I am simply trying to goad you into getting an education : )

LOL What you mean is that you cut and pasted a quote from somewhere on line.

Actually I didn't cut and paste my calculation for apparent angular displacement due to secular aberration. I did double check your claimed 150MPS (not hours as I absent mindedly typed last time [grin]) on a couple websites, but then I calculated all the rest myself based on the speed of light, the distance of 1AU, and the 150 miles/second, and so on.

What was my untrue claim? I simply claimed that apparent position does not equal actual position.

That's a lie - you didn't simply claim -- you claimed much more then that!

you said LOL The 2.1 degrees is is exactly related to the light-time correction and the distance of the earth from the the sun. If the Sun was closer the angle would be smaller, and if the sun was further away the angle would be larger.

You saidThe 20 arc seconds you are talking about is the displacement of the suns masses orbit around the barycenter. It is not due to stellar aberration.

You're just outright wrong here - see here or do your own research - but Stellar Aberration is unquestionably do the the observer's transverse velocity and is about 20 arcseconds.

You said: The suns actual position and gravitational position do line up. The apparent position doesn't though, it is off by 2.1 degrees ...

And in case you might say that I was just confused, that's not possible either because I have been continually telling you things like:

But you claimed that the angular displacement between the sun's gravitational pull and optical position is 2.1 degrees, at any given instant, without waiting 8.3 minutes!

(I have told you many many times things along those many times. If you doubt I will gladly provide more links.)

In any case, not only are you claiming that the apparent angular displacement of the sun is 2.1 degrees but you have been claiming that it was due to the fact that the earth rotates 2.1 degrees in the time it takes light to fly the 1AU.

Furthermore, I have made it unquestionably clear that that's what I thought you were saying, and at no point did you come out and say "That's not what I'm saying."

So you've been claiming 2.1 degrees and I've been telling you that I understand you to be claiming 2.1 degrees at any given instant for an observer on earth.

You may change your mind but there is no question that you have been communicating by what you said and by what you didn't say that the sun is apparently angularly displaced by 2.1 degrees due to the fact that the earth rotates 2.1 degrees in the 8.3 minutes it takes the suns light to reach the earth, for an observer on the earth at any given instant in time.

Are you saying that you were wrong, or are you standing by your longstanding claim that if one had a gravity meter which would tell the exact actual position of the sun that it would (for an observer on the earth at any instant in time) read 2.1 degrees ahead of a regular sundial?

And no I am not going to do the math to show that either. I am simply trying to goad you into getting an education : )

Are you trying to goad me into getting an education by telling me lies and making me debunk them, thereby learning the truth? You're certainly not (on average) teaching me anything true by any other means. I'd really appreciate honesty though. I'm more or less ignoring your question about the increase of mass with light-speed velocities because I'm well aware of derailing tactics and this looks like one. And besides if we can't figure out a simple geometry then think how lost we could get with lightspeed weights.

-Jesse