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Whether death occurs as the result of ventilator withdrawal or organ procurement, the ethically relevant precondition is valid consent by the patient or surrogate. With such consent, there is no harm or wrong done in retrieving vital organs before death, provided that anesthesia is administered. With proper safeguards, no patient will die from vital organ donation who would not otherwise die as a result of the withdrawal of life support.

They are advocating MURDER!

1 posted on 09/04/2008 4:59:33 PM PDT by wagglebee
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2 posted on 09/04/2008 5:00:35 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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3 posted on 09/04/2008 5:01:08 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I’m sure Judge Greer is all in favor of this.


4 posted on 09/04/2008 5:01:32 PM PDT by itsthejourney (Sarah-cuda IS the right reason)
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

5 posted on 09/04/2008 5:03:02 PM PDT by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: wagglebee
With such consent, there is no harm or wrong done in retrieving vital organs before death, provided that anesthesia is administered.

This is being driven partly by the mistaken notion that a person has a property right vested in himself. Keep it up, and it won't be long until we're seeing live gladiatorial contests, to the death, on TV.

6 posted on 09/04/2008 5:03:09 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: wagglebee

This is a discussion I have with my wife every time we go to get our Driver’s Licences renewed. She always checks off the organ donation box and I have always refused to.

I have maintained that even if the safeguards that are in place today are satisfactory, there is no reason to believe that the safeguards in place five or ten years from now will be satisfactory. As our culture hurtles further down the track toward a utilitarian definition of the value of human life, these safeguards can only be further eroded.

I do not want my check-off today to be construed as consent to whatever the standard practice may be ten years from now, so I point out to her that my wishes and conditions for organ donation, and trust her to respect my wishes out of a sense of love and responsibility, but I have no illusions that the State of New Jersey has either motivation.

When we went to get our licences last Spring, she read the fine print in the pamphlet on organ donation, and was surprised to see that by checking the box, she was permitting her body to be used not only for lifesaving transplants, but also for medical training or experimentation. This is a significant change over the last five years, so now she is no longer a “box checker”, and it is a fight we no longer have to have.

BTW, she still thinks I am reactionary and paranoid, but that even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time...


8 posted on 09/04/2008 5:24:08 PM PDT by gridlock (HIX IN STIX DIG MCCAIN CHICK PICK)
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To: wagglebee
WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!!!!!

I am an ICU nurse.

Do NOT, NOT, under any circumstances sign an organ donor card!

Tell your loved ones of your wishes and allow THEM to make that decision AFTER you are dead.

I'M TELLING YOU NOW that the temptation is too great for some doctors, many of whom are NOT FROM THIS COUNTRY, to allow you to die with less than every effort being made, if you are a known organ donor. FWIW

9 posted on 09/04/2008 5:25:06 PM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: wagglebee

As they advance this argument, there will be fewer and fewer people who will give advance consent. People will have a legitimate fear that the transplant surgeon is going to come sniffing around before the treatment physician has finished his work, and that this may effect the quality of care.

Until the minute I am dead, I want the physician to view me as a human being, and not as a collection of valuable spare parts.


10 posted on 09/04/2008 5:26:37 PM PDT by gridlock (HIX IN STIX DIG MCCAIN CHICK PICK)
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To: wagglebee

I would not want to be in a hospital’s ER if a big-shot needed a transplant and I was a good match


12 posted on 09/04/2008 5:30:48 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell)
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To: wagglebee

Not just murder, but murder with a large profit motive.


14 posted on 09/04/2008 5:49:37 PM PDT by kallisti ("Do not do an immoral thing for moral reasons.")
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To: wagglebee; Calpernia; DAVEY CROCKETT; Velveeta; milford421

Cal, does this link back to the Evergreen Society?

Do I have the right name, you know Hitler and Terri?

and lots of liberals..........


15 posted on 09/04/2008 6:00:45 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1990507/posts?page=451 SURVIVAL, RECIPES, GARDENS, & INFO)
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To: wagglebee

This is abhorrent, and why I will not sign a living will. Living wills are now misinterpreted to mean “don’t try to help at all.”


17 posted on 09/04/2008 6:35:45 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: wagglebee

This has been going on quietly for some time. Now they are just trying to be more open about it.


18 posted on 09/04/2008 6:36:14 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: wagglebee
This scares the bejesus out of me.

My husband had a kidney transplant 3 months ago, with a kidney donated by a kind stranger. Whoever you are and whereever you are (I hope you are with the Lord), we thank you. There are not enough kind words to say to you or about you, and we appreciate it more than we can ever express.

With that being said, these last months have been an education, believe me. I won't go into everything we've learned and been exposed to in the transplant experience, but suffice it to say that we are convinced our transplant unit's primary concern is their success numbers, not the health or well-being of transplant recipients.

The idea that these same doctors, whose concern for their own phony-baloney success numbers seems to take precendence over my husband's inability to walk to the bathroom because he's too anemic to put one foot in front of another, will be the ones to decide to terminate someone's life to harvest organs? Frankly, I don't trust their judgment on anything other than the actual mechanics of taking a kidney from one person and putting it in another. Anything having to do with patient care or clinical skills seems to be way beyond these people. I imagine that they have as much knowledge of "bioethics" as they do about particle physics.

Wesley Smith is right about that ripping sound. I reluctantly checked the organ donor's option on my drivers' license application last time, feeling it was my duty to do so since my husband was on the kidney transplant list, but this resurrects all my doubts. I certainly don't want these people in charge of deciding whether I or my husband will live or die.

My gut tells me they will only care about the viability of the organs they can harvest, not the organ donor's life.

The slope is getting slipperier every day.

20 posted on 09/04/2008 6:39:23 PM PDT by WarEagle (Can America survive a President named Hussein?)
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To: wagglebee

This is why people should carry a NON-Donor card.


21 posted on 09/04/2008 6:56:31 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: wagglebee

There are any number of conditions that disqualify organ donation, and some means should be used for individuals with those conditions to identify themselves, that “all body parts must be disposed - organs unsuitable for transplant”.

More and more, less ethical medical personnel are moving away from voluntary donation, and lobbying politically to make mandatory donation the law. Or just taking the organs they want anyway. However, even the most unethical will hesitate in reusing contaminated organs, as that will be investigated and prosecuted.

And the collapse of medical ethics is so bad, that people may intentionally be administered antigens for rabies, for example, to prevent organ theft when they are hospitalized. When the value of one of your internal organs is between $30-50k, it is easy for ethics to go right out the window. They may want your organs more than they want you alive.


25 posted on 09/04/2008 8:57:03 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: wagglebee
oh no! didn't you read? they are advocating CHOICE.
im shocked.. SHOCKED I SAY
34 posted on 09/05/2008 12:05:06 AM PDT by wafflehouse (RE-ELECT NO ONE !)
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