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To: Citizen Blade; metmom; valkyry1
“I believe that metmom has stated upthread that she is in favor of Christian-prayer and Bible study in public schools.

That, IMO, is the teaching of Christianity in public schools.
I didn't see where she said that, and you have completely failed to link to where she said that.

If your claim that she is in favor of Christian-prayer and Bible study in public schools is a halfway decent quote, and your construing that to mean state funded and sanctioned teaching, then all you did was throw a Strawman!

There is a difference between public funds being spent on the government sanctioned teaching of Religious material, and the free exercise of constitutional rights in public.

The only people I know of that don't know the difference between those two are DUmmies and KOSacks.
424 posted on 09/02/2008 10:06:53 AM PDT by Fichori (ironic: adj. 1 Characterized by or constituting irony. 2 Obamy getting beat up by a girl.)
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To: Fichori; metmom
If your claim that she is in favor of Christian-prayer and Bible study in public schools is a halfway decent quote, and your construing that to mean state funded and sanctioned teaching, then all you did was throw a Strawman!

Metmom and I were talking about allowing teachers, during school hours, to lead prayers and read from the Bible- that is an unconstitutional practice, as it involves the expenditure of public money to teach the tenets of one religion.

We're not talking about students starting up parayer groups or Bible-study clubs, which is a wholly different issue, and has been ruled Constitutional on many occasions.

There is a difference between public funds being spent on the government sanctioned teaching of Religious material, and the free exercise of constitutional rights in public.

Of course there is, and 1st Amendment case law is pretty clear that it is unconstitutional for teachers to lead prayer or read to the students from religious books during class time. It has also ruled that schools have to allow students to exercise their religion, with some reasonable limitations (such as that they can't try to convert their classmates in the middle of math class).

425 posted on 09/02/2008 11:21:32 AM PDT by Citizen Blade ("Please... I go through everyone's trash." The Question)
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To: Fichori; Citizen Blade; metmom; valkyry1
There is a difference between public funds being spent on the government sanctioned teaching of Religious material, and the free exercise of constitutional rights in public.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The government school is in a Catch 22. Allowing funding to follow the child is a a solution to this Catch 22.

Where is the Catch 22? Please compare the following:

1) The very act of forcing children into government buildings and ordering them to be silent most of the day automatically prohibits the free exercise of religion of the children and their parents. It does not matter that these buildings are misnamed “schools”.

2) Allowing children to freely speak about their religion and exercise their religion would create chaos in the classroom, and subject other unwilling captive children to their proselytizing.

3) Forbidding the teaching of religion by the government teaches all the children that religion is unimportant, irrelevant, or ( worse of all) is so shameful it must be hidden like a bathroom activity.

4) Teaching about religion immediately puts the government into the position of establishing religion. Which religion gets the government imprimatur? And...There are parents who do not want their child exposed to any religion whatsoever.

So....Fichori....There is only **one** possible solution! Start the process of getting government out of the education business.

There is no possible way that government schools can avoid establishing religion. They will either establish are godless worldview or a God-centered one, and neither is religiously neutral. Government schools will silence religious speech and practice of religion.

439 posted on 09/04/2008 5:42:21 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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