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To: TornadoAlley3
Nancy said the Catholic church is still struggling about when life begins. I am not Catholic, is that true?

It all depends on whether you accept official Catholic doctrine and Papal pronouncements. Perhaps she is referring to some groups like "Catholics for Free Choice"?

173 posted on 08/24/2008 6:58:04 AM PDT by BusterBear
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To: BusterBear

Pelosi is using big lie theory in action.

There is no dispute, just crackpots who want to chinese menu the church.


180 posted on 08/24/2008 7:00:33 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: BusterBear
OK, I'm still here... Tornado warning over.

I've got to go to Mass in a few minutes.

Nancy Pelosi is a known liar and dead wrong. This is what the Catholic Church states, direct from the Catechism:

Abortion

Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76

Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."81

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."82

190 posted on 08/24/2008 7:07:59 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: BusterBear

Well, the Vatican made it all very clear in 1974 with this Declaration:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19741118_declaration-abortion_en.html

See #11 about life being sacred and which no state or man may put asunder and #13 says it begins at conception, if not earlier.


314 posted on 08/24/2008 8:25:31 AM PDT by shalom aleichem
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