http://www.zonaeuropa.com/200808b.brief.htm#020
The girl with the missing tooth whom everyone thinks is a toddler... 5 years ago. 
Posted on 08/17/2008 10:11:47 AM PDT by AJKauf
Chinese coaches tried to hide the ages of the girls with “enough makeup to shame a drag queen,” but no amount of lipstick and eyeliner can hide the fact that the American gymnasts have curves and breasts and the Chinese ones don’t. On average, the girls on the Chinese team are 3.5 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter than their American counterparts....
(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...
“Really .. I’m not a freak ... I’ve just noticed.”
everyone notices.
Not only were the chinese just “underdeveloped” or “late bloomers” - they had absolutely NO development whatsoever.
No change in hip structure whatsoever.
No early signs of ANY breast development.
Childish faces.
One girl, during an interview said when she has downtime she still goes to the gym and “plays” with her friends.
do you know teenagers who describe how they “play”?
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/200808b.brief.htm#020
The girl with the missing tooth whom everyone thinks is a toddler... 5 years ago.
Well, considering 2 of the Chinese gymnasts competed 2 years ago and their ages at those meets were listed as 13, the Chinese must be using a different calender where kids age quicker.
They cheated. Get over it.
“American teenage girls do look much older - and act older, in a social sense - than their equivalents in Asia. I don’t know how this can be documented, but thats what I saw.”
So - why do american chinese gymnasts not look 10 when they are 16?
Why do chinese gymnasts from the past appear older at 16 than girls in the last 2 olympics?
Do asians retain baby teeth at 16?
“American teenage girls do look much older - and act older, in a social sense - than their equivalents in Asia. I don’t know how this can be documented, but thats what I saw.”
I’ve spent several months at a time in Asia - Japan, Hong Kong and Thailand. There is no debating there are physical differences. Physical differences are not the sole issue by a long shot here, despite Puget’s insistence on ignoring that fact. And most assuredly American teens and pre-teens are not remotely all walking around looking like high-school girls today versus 10 or 20 years ago, as he also claims.
Apparently your reading comprehension is down quite a bit today...
I’ve said SEVERAL TIMES that if there’s other documentation about age - great! Bring it up - please!
The thread has been about the appearance of the gymnasts, and I’ll stand fast that you just can’t look and tell age - you simply can’t.
Apparently you missed the summary of the start of the thread:
“Chinese coaches tried to hide the ages of the girls with “enough makeup to shame a drag queen,” but no amount of lipstick and eyeliner can hide the fact that the American gymnasts have curves and breasts and the Chinese ones don’t. On average, the girls on the Chinese team are 3.5 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter than their American counterparts....”
Now how that does NOT point to appearance I haven’t a clue.
This thread is about the physical appearance, plain and simple. And the reality is that several OTHER posters in this thread have pointed out the same thing I have: asian women appear younger than you think.
And several have added that gymnasts - including Americans - mature much more slowly. Add those two facts together and you end up with a team that may look to be all 13 and 14 years old but very well could be 16+.
So read the opening again, and get back to me on that whole premise that I do not want to question their age. I’ve posted here that if there’s other information, that’s what you need to use. Looks alone - as this thread opened with - simply doesn’t cut it.
I AM FREAKING OVER IT! Geez, you guys are just slow...
There’s other documentation, great use that! But like the author of this original article, if you’re hung up on physical appearance - GET OVER IT. Some races naturally look younger.
“Either we care or we don’t. If we do care, it would not take a great deal of additional funding to remove some of the roadblocks we have in place for funneling our best athletes through our massive already-existing athletics programs. But if we keep blocking athletes out due to funding issues, if we keep having to rely on people for four years who time and again are injured or otherwise withdraw at the last moment leaving us scrambling, then we’re just going to become a laughingstock. We may win a lot of medals, but we don’t win them commensurate with our size, our sporting history and the amount of money we spend on sports in general.”
excellent points.
And while gymnastics has attempted to improve the chances for more athletes to have access to better training (TOPS program - traveling teaching clinics) - it is still primarily a sport for the wealthy.
and especially in this economy - you aren’t going to see many talented athletes make it to the elite level simply because mom and dad cannot afford the tuition and travel expenses.
“The thread has been about the appearance of the gymnasts, and I’ll stand fast that you just can’t look and tell age - you simply can’t.”
Chinese-american gymnasts do not appear to be 10 when they are 16.
Chinese gymnasts in past olympics (except in Athens) appeared older at “16” then these athletes.
Chinese athletes in other sporting events appear older at “16” than the chinese gymnasts.
Chinese 16 year olds do not retain baby teeth.
I understand what you say when you mention they may just be smaller. But look at how spindly they are. There is not a drop of fat on them. Of course you can’t expect pro athletes to be fat, but just look at them. It just doesn’t look right to me. Look at the bones of their heads.
Now being in a state program from the time they are babies, you know they don’t make up their own diets. I just have the feeling they are on a very regimented diet, and the calories are purposefully not quite enough.
American Chinese gymnasts -
- Come from a very tiny population pool, less than 20 million, even counting pro-rated proportion of adoptees. Chinas base pool is over 50 times larger.
- Come from an even smaller pool of people who volunteer their children for this sport. The Chinese state system multiplies that pool size by many times, how many its impossible to jusdge, but combined with the population base it must be a factor of hundreds.
- American Chinese kids are raised under at least partially American cultural constraints. Their parents are very unlikely to completely abdicate their responsibilities to the coaches and the state. Deliberate malnutrition and retarded development are much less likely to edge towards extremes.
The Chinese state, to put it bluntly, is far more capable of finding freaks of nature and molding them for a specific purpose.
This is not to say the Chinese aren’t cheating. They are perfectly capable of doing that and certainly will if given a low-risk opportunity.
Deliberate malnutrition - that could very well be - there are few constraints on the Chinese coaches.
“The Chinese state, to put it bluntly, is far more capable of finding freaks of nature and molding them for a specific purpose.
This is not to say the Chinese aren’t cheating. They are perfectly capable of doing that and certainly will if given a low-risk opportunity.”
So now the argument isn’t that these girls are typical teens and we americans just don’t understand asians?
Now the argument is that these girls are freaks of nature?
That still does not explain the lack of maturity in their dance on floor. If they truly had been receiving dance training for many years to compete at the olympic level, the first chinese girl up on floor would not have looked so pitiful.
Does you “freak of nature” theory also apply to baby teeth?
It isn’t only Beijing - but in Athens as well that the baby teeth were noted by other countries.
Thank you. Many here simply will not let their own prejudices and blinders be lifted. Travel the world, and you’ll see that people age and mature at different rates based upon culture, economy, and race.
But apparently many here believe if it’s different from what we see in the US it must be cheating or doping or something illegal.
China’s got plenty to answer for about this issue from the documentation about ages, published in past articles. But to use physical appearance is highly misguided.
Xie xie wo peng you,
Da Mao
My daughter is a pituatary dwarf and is the size and stature of a child about 3 to 4 years younger than herself. Her gymnastics teacher is having fits over her.
“Thank you. Many here simply will not let their own prejudices and blinders be lifted.”
so it is prejudice to rely on what our eyes and common sense tell us?
It is prejudice to compare these chinese “teens” with other chinese teens?
“Deliberate malnutrition - that could very well be - there are few constraints on the Chinese coaches.”
girls who are being starved are not going to have stamina to get through floor routines or bar routines.
Their bones would get brittle and break easily.
They may make it through brief periods of time, but not hold up under long competition season - through world championships, olympic trials, and then the olympics.
See my post above yours. I’m really starting to wonder if they haven’t found a way to slow down the pituatary gland.
I know my daughter will be 12 or 13, but her body will be 8 or 9. Even at 16, she will be the size and body type of a 11 or 12 year old, depending on how fast or slow her pituatary gland kicks into gear. For all intents and purposes, her body thinks she is just under 4 years old, although her mind is 7, as is her age. Therefore her skill is at 7. Her gymnastics teacher has mentioned to me the advantage of this and seems excited to work with her. I’m assuming based on this “condition” and how it will benefit her in gymnastic competition. She will have the size of a smaller child, but the mental skill of the older child. It’s a win win for her I guess.
Luckily, my daughter loves gymnastics, so she is eager to do well.
You're right about this. But the problem here is that these Chinese Olympians were cited in Chinese articles on inter-city competitions as being way younger than 16 when they won a year ago. After the articles were pointed out, the Chinese authorities removed the articles from the websites. This isn't the the Chinese coach cheating. It's the Chinese government.
No girl who gets to this level of gymnastics is in any way typical - or any other athlete at the Olympics for that matter.
The US system selects for very specific physical types just as the Chinese do - they just have a MUCH bigger pool to choose from (by several orders of magnitude), because of genetics, population size and state sports system.
As for the dance, I expect thats a matter of aesthetics. Thats a very intangible issue that the Chinese won’t fix - to match the largely western aesthetic standards - until they train a new generation of coaches. Our concepts of grace and dance just didn’t exist there.
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