http://www.sandia.gov/media/NewsRel/NR2001/norton.htm
in this thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2051186/replies?c=69
And thackney provided this image of the Seneca Pumped Storage facility in the same thread:
Posted on 08/03/2008 1:59:42 PM PDT by kathsua
The real point is, the stated output claimed on these windmills is not constant power output, it's Max. power output under ideal conditions in a 24 hr period.
So how much do *you* know about quickly cranking up rolling reserve, billva? How about loss of power plant thermal efficiency at low loads?
You might read this, concerning that first:
That's about right, as is the rest of your post.
windpower isn't all that it's crack up to be. People are being suckered. Sure it's ok for individual use like me way out in the sticks where grid power is expensive. But it isn't cheap, and it isn't easy either. It requires constant work and maintenance, and isn't always there when you want it to be.
1 horsepower = 745.699872 watts
per Handbook of Chemistry and Physics
600 is good for back-of-the-envelope, though.
A 4000 MW plant is equivalent to 5.4 million horsepower.
That would take a lot of oats, and the post-processed oats would fill a train!
I agree- if it’s going to make power for him to sell, he’d have done it already. He needs subsidies and tax breaks and someone else’s money, and the tax breaks will be used to offset his other taxes.
I will bow to you knowledge of private windmill installation. The instance you speak of, line maintenance, etc. , has been overcome with solar enhanced residences. Some utility companies don’t really want supplemental energy because it reduces their revenue. I will not argue with you, that TODAY, the initial outlay for the installation of solar or wind power is extensive. That doesn’t mean it will be in the future.
I hope you don’t mind if I answer two of your posts with one, but my time is limited.
In answer to your post #78..
Pickens built a huge windmill farm in west Texas, at his own expense. I’m not a Pickens groupie, of course he intends to make a profit. But it wasn’t something he HAD to do. Let’s face it, the guy is pretty flush already.
We have thermal power protention a mere 120 feet deep in this area.
To start with do an internet search on wind power. I did that the other day just for fun and a lot came up including people who will build and sell a system.
It will not be cheap and may not be worth the investment. However if you did put in a windmill and it generated more than you need at any time it could be sent back into the grid and you might get paid for the excess when that is happening. You would have to check with you local electrid utility on that policy.
In fact checking with your local electric utility might be a way to get a lead for people who deal with windmills.
Kilowatt is 1000 watts, where Mega is 1000 kilowatts
Nathan, 1000 kilowatts is 1 megawatt. Mega is millions.
Nuclear is FAR more efficient, reliable, consistent, transferable, storable, etc., and needs no further development, nor tax money.
Hey I'm with you on Nuclear. Let's say Nuclear being a big part of the long range solution. However the Windmills can be online a lot quicker and can freeing up other fuels for other uses earlier.
I think we need to have a comprehensive plan that includes wind, solar, nuclear and drilling for oil. For that matter the ocean has some potential also.
But I think that the wind in the middle of the country can be brought online while nuclear is being permitted.
Interestingly both Florida Power and Light and Georgia Power are both in the process of getting approval for adding Nuclear.
It's about time.
You might read this, concerning that first:
Loss of wind causes Texas power grid emergency
Thanks for the link.
That doesn't really change what I am saying though. Units do not operate at full capacity if they are not delivering power. What happened in Texas is exactly what I posted in my long post, low frequency took some customers off, units that were on standby were brought up to higher operating capacity and the customers were brought back online. What I do imagine, but don't know the details, is that since Wind Power will be more unreliable and therefore more reserve capacity might be required. However no matter how you look at it if there is considerable wind power online then there are units that will not be burning fossil fuel.
Also I don't think windmills are applicable everywhere. But in the middle part of the country there does seem to be areas where it is very feasible and can be transmitted elsewhere in the country. Since we are all in this together it still seems feasible to me.
I'm with you on this. Like he said he already has all the money he needs and I personally believe him and will listen to his ideas.
We need to do things differently and I'll sure take his word over the liberal democrats who don't seem to give a damn that we have a problem.
I believe that while he said we can't drill our way out of this problem that we do need to drill as part of the solution.
I apologize for not responding to this remark in my last post.
In fact I don't know that much about how long it takes to bring up rolling reserve.
But I feel those type problems can be handled, it may take policy and operating changes but it only makes sense that if you have large amount of wind power operating that it is replacing some type of other fuel, maybe not at the same efficiently but still a savings in fuel. What I mean is that it may take changes in the amount of rolling reserve that you mention but it's still a savings.
My experience isn't in the power end of the business so I don't know all the ins and outs but do understand the general idea. My experience was in Tranmission and Distribution.
Anyway I didn't mean to blow by your question.
At least it’s an idea. Which is more than we are hearing from anyone else.
I think we maybe on the cusp of new technology. That is a good thing, imo. It happens every so often.
Orville..Wilbur..that thing won’t fly.
Like you said, he didn’t say don’t drill.
Why not listen..nobody else has a solution. When they do..I’ll pay attention.
either way it was to provide for all of KG&E’s needs and now they say we need more.
I meant to add your screen-name to the address line for post # 97. Please take a look.
Finally some truth about wind power from a politician.
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