[cmdjing]

The article just goes to show the intellectual paucity of many American conservatives.

Sparta was no beacon of freedom defending democracy and “Western” values. It was an outpost of unrelenting totalitarianism defending it’s right to exist.

Mass surveillance, terror was an instrument of suppression, unparalleled Stalinist levels of socio-economic regulation, and a statist ideology where the purpose of the individual was nothing more than an instrument to serve the state.

I don’t know what the self proclaimed conservative lionizers of Sparta are drinking, but a place in which the government would steal children from their mothers and families to be totally indoctrinated by the state as killers (a feat that surpassed even Hitler and Stalin’s wildest dreams of social engineering) is not something most Americans would celebrate.

[allmendream]

Yes, the Spartans were also famous for committing infanticide on any deemed unfit.

[allmendream]

Also, because the Spartans raised their men without women around, homosexuality was so rampant that they had to dress new brides up like men and cut their hair so that the groom would consummate the marriage.

[ZULU]

The difference between Sparta and the Persian Empire is the Spartans SUPPORTED their own government and chose to follow it. They could have left anytime they wanted to.
Few if any did.

In Persia, all autocracy was imposed from above by an absolute monarch who conquered other people and other lands.

There is some truth in what you say, but the differences between life as a Spartiate and a Persian subject were cosmic.

Another admirable thing about Sparta was its cult of courage and patriotism. We could use an infusion of that.

And when judging another society using contemporary values, you are treading on unstable ground.

[yarddog]

There was a lot to admire about the Spartans but even more to fear. They truly were great warriors but could be really brutal. Their treatment of the Helots was about as bad as slavery gets.

It always interested me that Sparta depended on slaves more than any other civilization but hardly anyone ever mentions it.

I will say one thing for them. After they defeated Athens, their allies, particularly the Thebans wanted to destroy Athens but the Spartans remembered when they had fought together against Persia and spared them.

[CarrotAndStick]

Exactly!

I was wondering how the author of this piece swallowed that movie as fact.

Spartans used to leave their weak and sickly newborns on hills... to die.

The rest were kicked to see how loudly they screamed, and sorted accordingly.

As for Xerses, the Spartans were fighting their neighbouring Greeks as much as they were, the Persians.

[Polybius]

The article just goes to show the intellectual paucity of many American conservatives. Sparta was no beacon of freedom defending democracy and “Western” values. It was an outpost of unrelenting totalitarianism defending it’s right to exist. ... a place in which the government would steal children from their mothers and families to be totally indoctrinated by the state as killers (a feat that surpassed even Hitler and Stalin’s wildest dreams of social engineering) is not something most Americans would celebrate.

The Spartan ephors, however, were elected by the popular assembly and the ephors, in turn, had checks and balances power over the Kings themselves. Whether we in 21st Century America agree or not with how the citizens of Sparta elected to structure their government does not change the fact that the citizens of Sparta structured their government as they d@mned well pleased.

I would also point out that Sparta's devotion to the core value of "defending it’s right to exist" should not be taken for granted ......

..... especially in 21st Century America.