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Memo to Conservatives: Free Trade with China Is Good
North Star Writers Group ^ | May 30, 2008 | Paul Ibrahim

Posted on 05/30/2008 5:01:11 AM PDT by Invisigoth

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To: Dan Calabrese
Based on this article the man is clearly no conservative. His world view will make labor a commodity and reduce labor to subsistence level. This is already happening here in the USA. Why pay US labor 20 dollars an hour when you can get equally skilled Asian labor for 1 dollar an hour? This is a no brainer. As Asian labor becomes more and more skilled, and they will with more and more production moving there, then the more Asian labor will be used.

And there is also the fairness issue, it is grossly unfair to put American labor in direct competition with Chinese communist labor. The cost of living in the USA is vastly higher then the cost of living in communist China. Chinese labor does not have to carry the burden of environmental protection, OHSA, workman comp, and a dozen other mandatory costs.

Unrestrained free trade of today is exactly like the unrestrained capitalism of the late 1800 and early 1900. A few win big and the rest struggle to stay alive. Not my idea of a conservative society.

21 posted on 05/30/2008 7:45:41 AM PDT by jpsb
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To: indcons

I think trade with the chicoms is a one way street favoring them and it must stop.


22 posted on 05/30/2008 8:06:58 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME
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To: Invisigoth
1980’s Communism Evil Empire
2000’s Communism Good For Business

I do find it ironic that we trade with Communist China even though they are responsible for more American deaths post WWII than any other country. Either coming overt the hills in Korea or training, equipping and arming the NVA.

23 posted on 05/30/2008 8:11:56 AM PDT by BGHater ("If any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied")
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To: BGHater

Arming Iran now to.


24 posted on 05/30/2008 8:18:01 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME
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To: Dan Calabrese

Can you send Paul Ibrahim the link to this thread?


25 posted on 05/30/2008 8:21:03 AM PDT by indcons
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To: MARKUSPRIME

The ChiComs mean no good and the “free” traders are too greedy to realize that. Or maybe, they do realize the threat but prefer to ignore it for obvious reasons.


26 posted on 05/30/2008 8:22:34 AM PDT by indcons
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To: indcons

Yep. Already did.


27 posted on 05/30/2008 9:32:13 AM PDT by Dan Calabrese
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To: indcons; Dan Calabrese
Excellent post, indcons. You make a great case that free trade does not spread freedom or accountability. As long as the official position of PLAN is to go to war with the U.S. before we start a war with them. As long as they continue to build an offensive military at record pace with profits from "free trade." As long as they help terrorist nations like Iran and others and as long as they treat large portions of their own populations like slaves I will oppose free trade and boycott all Chinese products.

There are a number of Chinese products that I really like. There are many things about traditional Chinese culture that I appreciate and would welcome more knowledge of and experience with. I can only wish for the best for the Chinese people as I do for all people. But the CCP is in control and they are as evil and dangerous as any regime has ever been. Free trade with them is a mistake and a fool's dream to think it will change them. It is no different than Obama's "Hope and Change" nonsense. It is the same delusional thinking as all liberal garbage. It has no grounding in reality and is disconnected from the inevitability of cause and effect.

28 posted on 05/30/2008 10:45:08 AM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Olympics for murdering regimes. Beijing 2008.)
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To: Dr. Sivana; indcons; pandoraou812
National security trumps economic efficiency.

Absolutely right.

Also, IMO, conservatism is not defined as or by capitalism. Capitalism is simply the reality of goods and services traded for profit. It isn't tied to any political ideology, theology or philosophy of life.

My view of conservatism isn't compartmentalized into moral conservatism, social conservatism or economic conservatism. None of those things alone is conservatism to me. They are simply aspects of the whole which is the patriotism of defending, preserving and flourishing the founding principles of our Constitutional Republic. The principles expounded in the DoI of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Those principles, protected by the appropriate understanding and use of the Constitution, encompass all the basic necessities for allowing freedom that best insure the flowering of a moral, ethical and prosperous society. A society whose security is assured through its voluntary unity of common purpose. The purpose being to create an environment conducive to the flowering of all of man's nobler characteristics and desires.

If that is not conservatism then conservatism is not what my politics are about. But whatever terms are used; the pursuit of economic prosperity as a fundamental measure of the success of our society is not in line with my view of the potential or the intentions of our Founding Father's vision of a free self-governing society. It doesn't support or promote the noble characteristics of mankind. It just feeds the age old games of greed and lust for power and control. It may seem to take the game out of the hands of the government and put it into the private sector, and in some ways it does, but it's the same game with the same effects and government is still in the game up to its neck. It doesn't encourage mankind it encourages men.

29 posted on 05/30/2008 11:51:02 AM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Olympics for murdering regimes. Beijing 2008.)
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To: Invisigoth

The Chinese government is going to very shortly make an official announcement that they are going stop the fluctuation of the currency and lock the exchange rate at 6.90 RMB to the U.S. Dollar.


30 posted on 05/30/2008 4:29:40 PM PDT by TennTuxedo
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To: indcons
"The ChiComs mean no good and the “free” traders are too greedy to realize that. Or maybe, they do realize the threat but prefer to ignore it for obvious reasons."

Agreed! Trade with some nations should be regulated more with regards to other foreign relations (alliances, human rights, and so on). Friendlier nations should be more favored.

Meanwhile, here's a site that broadcasts some friendly music (some in English, much in Hindi),...

Bollywood Music Radio (Mauritius)

...and a proxy'd MP3 stream (through the WinAmp site) from a California (IIRC) station (1.fm). Bombay Beats

I enjoy it. :-)


31 posted on 05/30/2008 4:35:36 PM PDT by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote)
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To: TennTuxedo
"The Chinese government is going to very shortly make an official announcement that they are going stop the fluctuation of the currency and lock the exchange rate at 6.90 RMB to the U.S. Dollar."

...thanks to the pushing by some of our own importers and merchants. The consequences will be an economic crash in China and an eventual war, if rising freight fuel prices don't bring the game down a little first.


32 posted on 05/30/2008 4:38:36 PM PDT by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote)
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To: familyop
...thanks to the pushing by some of our own importers and merchants. The consequences will be an economic crash in China and an eventual war, if rising freight fuel prices don't bring the game down a little first.

There is some truth to what you say. However, many industries have been relocating to newly built factories in Vietnam and many are looking at building plants in India. The Chinese government seeing industry fleeing to neighboring countries have taken the last resort that they have to keep other companies from bolting.

33 posted on 06/01/2008 6:20:32 AM PDT by TennTuxedo
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