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To: AndyJackson
No, it is called actually knowing history. I know more about WW II than anyone you've ever met or are ever likely to meet.

Germany's war timing target was 1942. Because it came too early, it lacked self sufficiency in synthetics, especially synthetic oil capacity for highest octane av gas, and synthetic rubber capacity. There were huge 4 year plans involved to develop that capacity. But they weren't remotely ready for a long war in 1939.

The general staff knew it, and some contemplated a coup against Hitler in the Czech crisis because they were sure war then would led to defeat. The west's diplomatic weakness dissuaded them. When Hitler played the Russia card, he thought the west would be mad to go to war over Poland, and that he'd get away with swallowing it, as he had Austria and the Czechs.

When he got a war with the west anyway, it stayed "phony" until forces from Poland could be redeployed and long after, because there was practically nothing in the west, and ammo production especially had to be ramped before even contemplating taking on France and Britain actively.

The Germans then ran the war as a series of shoestring gambles, without fully mobilizing the economy. (Some opposed that as early as 1940, but whoever promised the most with the least was heard by the political leadership). They were still trying to complete long term construction, and also trying to shelter the populace from war expense hardships for political reasons. Thus the madness of attacking Russia without mobilizing the economy.

Germany's peak tank output was about as high as Russias, unsurprising since they had the same pre-war industrial capacity. But Germany didn't get to that peak until 1944, while Russia was already at that level by 1942. Russia alone outproduced Germany in tanks by 2 to 1, simply by getting to the fully mobilized level faster than Germany did. They got a "rectangle" of full tank production from 1942 on, Germany got a "triangle" of a slow rise to the same peak, late.

Despite Germany planning the attack on Russia 6 months before it happened and achieving surprise, Russia being economically disrupted in the first year by loss of 40% of its prewar industry, and huge losses to it manpower base through deaths and occupation and military mobilization, Russian industry was making 20,000 tanks a year by 1942. Why wasn't Germany? One, because they weren't ready for war. Two, because they let pride go to their heads and tried to win "on the cheap". Three, because they thought all along, they couldn't win a long war of attrition.

Well they couldn't, and it was a long war of attrition; ergo, they lost.

Less important, since it was really such economic factors that decided the war, is the tech side. Technologically, Germany had inferior tanks at the outbreak of the war, nothing to compete with KVs and T-34s, and worse in gun and armor terms than the French and better Brit stuff. (Somewhat better in soft systems though - comms, optics, etc). It also had fewer of them than the western allies, and only a seventh as many as Russia had. It has no lead in aircraft tech, though it did in readiness over all possible opponents but Britain. It had a tiny U-boat fleet of under 100 subs. Tech without the war hothouse probably wouldn't have moved as fast, but the near term future brought far superior heavy tanks, jet aircraft, advanced subs with homing torpedos, and guided missiles. Most of which weren't out soon enough to make any appreciable difference in the actual war. Shift the war 3 years later in tech terms and Germany is in much better shape.

War in 1939 by Germany was reckless on Germany's part. It was a gamble, it predictably lost, Germany was smashed like a dozen would be continental hegemons before it. Britain had been doing the like with regularity for two and a half centuries. Yes it always had allies to help. Its entire grand strategy (and morality) was always geared to having them. Germany's wasn't, evil reckless losers never manage it.

279 posted on 05/23/2008 9:36:31 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: JasonC
I know more about WW II than anyone you've ever met or are ever likely to meet.

Whatever.

280 posted on 05/23/2008 11:25:51 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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