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FLDS hearings: Texas' case weakens as moms turn out adults
The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | May 21, 2008 | Brooke Adams

Posted on 05/21/2008 5:50:14 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy

SAN ANGELO, Texas - An underpinning of the state's case for taking hundreds of FLDS children into custody continued to weaken Tuesday as officials acknowledged four more women whose ages were disputed are adults - including one who is 27.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: flds; heyitstexas
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To: muawiyah

I haven’t seen a single poster on a single one of these threads that I think sees children as property. I also haven’t seen a single poster condone child abuse. You are simply a classic case of someone that when you don’t know how to make your point in an arguement you resort to attack- name calling.

I still think it is very childish to call names and I think you were way out of line with that post. It made you look ignorant- but if you don’t mind I guess I shouldn’t either.


181 posted on 05/21/2008 9:10:41 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)
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To: muawiyah

“CPS acted under color of law, and correctly so given the information they had at the time.”

Interesting assertion - given the 27-yo that they kidnapped, who presented both her BC and DL before they took her into custody, I would love to be on the jury.


182 posted on 05/21/2008 9:10:58 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: Crim

The raid on FLDS is something liberal democrats would support. Right down their alley. But so-called conservative Republicans. I am shocked to find so much support for a Janet Reno type raid on this site.


183 posted on 05/21/2008 9:12:18 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: muawiyah

Do you want criminal trials or what? That can be arranged.


Did you really mean to say that? If so, and I said yes, then you have the pull to do that? Just yanking your chain actually as what I want in this case is immaterial as I have no dog in this fight and have to rely on info that is being aired at a very high volume by multiple sources...just as the potential jury pool is doing.


184 posted on 05/21/2008 9:12:23 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (With McCain around we can proudly proclaim, WE ARE SO SCREWED)
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To: muawiyah

You read the search warrant posted by deport, right?

So you saw that the state agreed that there were multiple residences in the compound, right?

If the official document that led to the raid acknowledged that there were multiple residences in the community, why do you still insist they were all one residence?

Or more to the point, if (as you insist) having a single address means you are legally a single residence, why does the search warrant note they had a single address, but mention there are multiple residences?

It’s clear the CPS knew that they had to call out all the residences at that address, in order to be able to go into them. It wasn’t enough that they had a single address — that fact is meaningless in discussing how many different residences there were in the compound.


185 posted on 05/21/2008 9:12:33 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Tammy8
Let's say they went out to your ranch and met you at the "gate" (your established front entrance to the property), and rang your bell, telephone, or whatever you use to be notified of visitors, and you came out and said "nope, nobody here by that name" and while I'm there I see an apparant minor child or 2 or 3 wander by and notice they are pregnant!

I could come back with a warrant drawn up like the ones used by CPS and the sheriff that indicated that every building on your ranch should be searched.

End of story.

Again, you are the one who decided where the "gate" was. At the same time the USPS has issued a rule that allows you, or others at your ranch, to post a box on the right of way at the side of the road and receive mail addressed to that box. They'll give you a box number (or Rural Route Identifier Code of some sort) so you can do this. That's why you sometimes see lines of mailboxes near a "gate".

In fact, if you wanted, you could probably just go post a box along the line of travel of any rural route carrier and get mail even if you didn't live anywhere near.

Rural route delivery operates under slightly different rules than City Delivery, but all the basic principles are the same (except the box on the line of travel and you don't even have a residence in the area).

Yes, this country still has Mountain Men and wanderers in the wilderness. Provided they keep the box clear of mail and don't stuff it full of rattlesnakes, everything is cool.

186 posted on 05/21/2008 9:13:23 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Saundra Duffy

My guess is they simply didn’t have a copy of the search warrant for each officer in the raid. The search warrant seems to clearly call out all the residences on the property.


187 posted on 05/21/2008 9:14:12 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
No, the state merely agreed there are several buildings used for residential purposes. Absent some knowledge of the internal addresses at F(lds) they simply encompassed the term "residence" to cover the whole place, and then specified what buildings, structures and fixtures would be included within the meaning.

F(lds) could have made it easy for them but they didn't.

188 posted on 05/21/2008 9:15:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

a lot of people said they lived in a single dorm. Because other people said they lived at the same “residence”, which is also false, but having read it, people were misled and assumed it meant they all lived in the same dorm.

There is much misinformation, some of which we are trying to correct here by pointing out that there were multiple residences on the campus, as called out in the search warrant.


189 posted on 05/21/2008 9:16:03 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Saundra Duffy
A Janet Reno type raid is one where you fire into the front door upon arrival.

No one fired a shot here.

Did you think they should have?

190 posted on 05/21/2008 9:16:30 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: patton
Did they "take her into custody" or simply let her go along with the children?

And Utah DL? Give me a break. They pass those things out to illegal aliens just as soon as they show up to mow grass. They're notorious.

191 posted on 05/21/2008 9:18:30 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Your response indicates that you did not read the warrant, or if you did, you did not understand it.

You should go back and READ the warrant, specifically the place where they discuss what is covered by the warrant, and compare it to what you just wrote.

Or if you want, let me know and I’ll do your work for you. Becuase it is just that important to end this falsehood once and for all.


192 posted on 05/21/2008 9:19:31 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Tammy8
Go back to the beginning. There are plenty of pro-F(lds) people who argue that the parents have an absolute right to their children no matter what.

That's not the law in this country. Children also have rights.

193 posted on 05/21/2008 9:19:43 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

You remind me of a poster who refused to accept that they had the number of boys at the ranch completely wrong, because I was citing CNN as a source. Even though the CNN information was proven correct by citing other sources.


194 posted on 05/21/2008 9:20:45 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: muawiyah

I haven’t found any pro-FLDS people yet. If I find one, I’ll ask them if they think their children are property. Nobody has said so yet that I’ve seen.


195 posted on 05/21/2008 9:21:33 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
CNN is always a questionable source. There can be no exceptions ~ even though they broke the 100 kids without a mother story the other night.

Took several hours for someone else to publish. That's why I didn't enter it as a thread ~ just made comments about the tale within the context of existing threads.

You don't believe CNN do you?

196 posted on 05/21/2008 9:24:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

They took her into custody as a “disputed minor”, and only released her today.

As you knew, since you have been all over these threads.

And ... unless CPS has clear and convincing evidence to REFUTE her Utah BC and DL, they kidnapped her, both in fact and in law.

Death-penalty felony, you know?

There is no escape clause that allows TX to assume a Utah BC and DL are fake. None.


197 posted on 05/21/2008 9:26:23 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: muawiyah
Jumping in with a question, the ranch, families’ lives seem to be so controlled by Jeffs, wouldn't the mail have been screened? In other words read by the leaders before seen?

Having a main mail addy would make it easier to monitor

198 posted on 05/21/2008 9:27:39 PM PDT by mcsparkle
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To: mcsparkle
Now you got it. The F(lds) is your typical totalitarian operation. It carries its ambition to control it's subjects lives as far as possible ~ this invariably brings them into contract with the outside world.

They might even have thought that without an address system no one could write up a warrant to search the place. I suspect some of their regular lawyers have been sucking them dry with advice like that.

199 posted on 05/21/2008 9:32:55 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: CharlesWayneCT

As a complete aside - children are property, in some states.

Not that one can drown the unwanted ones in a well, or something.

But that is how the law handles them.


200 posted on 05/21/2008 9:33:29 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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