Posted on 05/17/2008 2:03:48 AM PDT by MartinaMisc
It was fun while it lasted.
The guaranteed election of a non-conservative President on November 4th represents the end of the conservative movement in America. Neither Barack Obama nor John McCain stands for Reagan principles in any way, shape, manner or form—and after twenty years of non-conservative Presidents, it’s obvious that the Reagan era will never, ever return.
The conservative movement has been in the hospital for nearly two decades. Once George H. W. Bush—a good, moral man, but not a true conservative—entered the White House, conservative principles slowly but surely began to leave. Yes, he gave us a victory in the Gulf War and Clarence Thomas, but he also gave us a broken no-new-taxes promise and David Souter. Bush was more Rockefeller than Goldwater, during a time when America and the world needed more of the latter and less of the former.
Bill Clinton replaced Bush in 1993 and, during his eight years in office, stole certain conservative concepts (NAFTA, welfare reform) and destroyed others (judicial restraint, the rule of law). Clinton moved the country in a secular direction, helping to make the 1990s as culturally loose as the 1980s were culturally traditional. Clinton also seemed obsessed with, among other things, promoting the notion that the Reagan era was a fluke, and that (despite his famous 1996 claim) big government was a permanent reality.
(Excerpt) Read more at humanevents.com ...
Good grief. Even the Pope has accepted evolution and the scientific estimate of the age of the sensible world. I know Jesuit priests who teach these subjects in schools, and non-Jesuitical monks who also teach these things. I guess you cast all who claim to be Christians, but are not fundamentalist English speaking protestants into the 9th circle.
salvation by grace
Ah, that little bugaboo from John Calvin that lead to the deaths of countless numbers of his fellow citizens who could not quite get this point that one's conduct on this earth was irrelevant to one's final judgment in the hereafter.
Ah, but I presume that most of the folks here are Christians. It is you who have drawn an exclusionary circle around yourself and declared everyone else a non-Christian.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Well, I thought I was a Christian. But LightBeam has so kindly pointed out the error of my ways.
You see, I'm one of those Johnny-come-lately Greek Orthodox Christians, not one of the self-annointed, holier-than-thou, fire-breathing types that reads the authoritative KJV Bible with the red words underlined (lest I can't figure out when it is Jesus that is speaking) and look down on Catholics and Orthodox and others as hopelessly defective. Note, I also have the temerity to spell out God's name.
Thanks for pointing out that I and millions of my brethren are not needed in your vast conservative movement LightBeam.
I invite my other Orthodox and Catholic friends over for barbecue and beer on Sunday after we attend our phony church services.
My goodness. You don’t live in Texas do you? Lots of sinners in Texas.
Can't argue with that statement!
“Surely you don’t mean to say merely because someone chooses not to have a conservative political philosophy that they are treasonous or unpatriotic?”
Your confusion is inexcusable—I know you’re not that simple-minded.
Leaking military
secrets to the enemy is treasonous. Accusing our troops of murder when they are innocent, especially during wartime, is unpatriotic.
Sorry I missed all the fun last night.
This, of course, summarizes the whole debate. These lunatics have single-handedly destroyed the center-right coalition and have consigned conservatism to a long period in the wilderness.
The People are on our side on many important issues. They are especially on our side on the issue of judges and the courts.
But one thing the People will never, never allow is religious nutballs to get anywhere NEAR the levers of power.
I blame Rove for allowing these people to believe that if they worked for Bush, they would get some tangible reward, when that was impossible. His success in 2004 intoxicated House Republicans. In my opinion, when they collectively decided to interfere in the Schiavo case by passing (in effect) a Bill of Attainder, they drove the bus, and all of us, right off the cliff.
If a label of treason is used against those Americans who do not condemn homosexuality or the teaching of evolution it is becomes highly problematic. Indeed, my guess is that more than half of the population would fall under your treason umbrella. What kind of a country levels a charge of treason against more than half of its people?
Oops, sorry, I read two posts in response to mine. One used the term treason the other (you) used the term unpatriotic. I confused them in my response. Clearly there is a signigant difference between treason and unpatriotic.
In regard to evolution I have a studies background in theology. My son teaches high school science based in evolution theory. I find no great conflict between theology and science. I am satisfied that God’s sacred mystery is unfolding as God intends. I also believe that science in all its form is one of the truly great gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Actually that is not true. There are lots of good drinking stories in the Bible. Noah was the first to partake of too much grape. And, when under the influence he did something that was really upsetting to himself and brought shame on his family. Scholars believe it was something of a sexual nature but what he actually did was never clearly explained. But, the fact he drank and it caused shame is very clear.
Do you think God has a great belly laugh when he sees us fighting over obscure meanings of sacred texts written centuries ago? If the same script says something to one person but something else to another faith community, is it not merely imperfect humans struggling with the sacred Word. Perhaps, they can disagree and still both be right. Or, both wrong. It seems to me God’s meaning will be fully revealed when God intends it to be fully known.
Well I learned a lot, for instance, that a lot of our brethren conservatives in Texas are sinners, and apparently Christ revealed is truth in the divine language of Elizabethan (well Jamesian) English. I guess our mother tongue is another mystery of Christ (along with wine which the bigots keep forgetting), and the penalty for cross dressing is death, I guess by stoning, since that is the closest penalty to the abomonation mentioned. [Next time I show up at a skit put on by my local Catholic boys school with a pile of rocks are they going to be surprised, but hey, the law is the law, and once I read that chapter from Duetoromy the audience will have NO choice but to do their Christian duty].
You can't make this stuff up.
The funny thing is, I’m real fond of the KJV. I’ve got a couple of ‘em.
.These lunatics have single-handedly destroyed the center-right coalition and have consigned conservatism to a long period in the wilderness.
Yes indeed. It'll be a long time if ever before our conservative compatriots realize that the problem isn't RINOs or "liberal Republicans", it is the co-opting of the conservative movement by a religious agenda. Which even if small in numbers is vocal and self-satisfied in its ability to drive in directions which are repellent to many Americans (not to mention have nothing whatsoever to do with conservative ideals).
I blame Rove for allowing these people to believe that if they worked for Bush, they would get some tangible reward,
These days one can listen to a Rove speech without word about low taxes or small government.
The transcendent quality and beauty of the language of the KJV is unsurpassed, and I am at a loss as to why modernization is necessary. I grew up Church of England. We own the KJV, which is the infallible word as revealed to the English monarchists (irony intended) who replaced the Pope as head of the True faith. It is at the end of the day, a translation by fallible men of ancient texts copied and recopied by fallible men, and no current version of the Bible can claim to be THE infallible word of God above every other version of the text, or to the exclusion of other legitimate heirs to Christ's teachings.
What the KJV certainly is not is the exclusive province of American Calvinists, who view the New Testament looking backwards through the telescope of the Old Testament, rather than starting from the ecumenical teachings of Christ, whose philosphy was balm to mankind suffering the ills created by Roman imperialism.
In particular American Calvinism seems determined to set itself up as the state religion of what is clearly a failed effort at neo-American imperialism [which is what the so-called neo-cons brought us]. They thought they could use the power of the US residual from the Cold War to reengage "the Great Game" long after all the other colonial powers who had become expert in playing the Great Game withdrew because they began to realize that if you play the Great Game you lose in the long run. [England, France, Russia, Spain and Germany have all learned this lesson. Even Mexico had to learn this lesson]. It is expensive and corrodes the fabric of domestic tranquility.
Eaten any shrimp recently ? I understand the Lord regards them as “unclean” and we are to desist from eating them ?
The KJV is a translation - why not learn Hebrew and Ancient Greek so you can check it out in the true original ?
Do you think the 18th Amendment was a conservative act ?
In terms of “One Truth, One God, One Bible and One Way”, what will you physically do with the millions of Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Agnostics, Catholics, Atheists, Muslims, Orthodox, Confucians etc who make up the magnificent melting pot called the USA ? Deport them all - or convert them ? If so, how ?
How can you hope to civilise the rest of the world with your absolutist rhetoric ? And how can you possibly hope to work with conservative moderates, litertarians, fiscal conservatives etc. who you socons need in order to govern ? If we don’t work together, the Rats win out - on that all us conservatives can surely agree.
I asked Gost2 this same question yesterday and he’s not replied yet, though I note he’s still posting mean-spirited drivel.
You don’t seriously think theocratic rhetoric is going to win the White House any time soon, do you ? Really ?
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