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To: endthematrix; gate2wire; red flanker; epow; celtic gal; GnuHere; pbmaltzman; ecurbh; Ramius

~sigh~

I was rather luke warm about even watching this race, but I did. I’m a long time horse owner, but not necessarily a racing aficionado. In past year I was able to get excited for the Triple Crown races, but after the heartbreak of Barbaro, and then the recent heartbreak of Frodo Baggins in the Rolex, I had just become a little too uneasy about watching equine sport at this level, where even the strongest are tested to the max and can fail.

“What’s wrong” lately might be a lot of things. From hanging out here, a horse forum, and a farrier forum, I see that a lot of the speculation has to do with perspective and background.

The horse forum discussion focuses on age. In pleasure and show horses, responsible trainers don’t train and ride horses before two, many prefer to wait until they are 3 or 4 to ride them with any kind of intensity, older than that before they are run hard or jumped. The horse matures from the ground up, and is not fully mature till around 5. And yet these racehorses are backed and started at 1 1/2 to race at 2. They have to earn their way to the Derby with winnings as 2 year olds.

Now... just because a horse is young doesn’t mean it should be bubble wrapped and prevented from moving... good exercise, including running and playing in big wide open spaces is vital to physical development, just as it is for our own children during the growing phase. Some work under saddle during the growing phase of a horse is arguably good for them, the movement and ‘stress’ to the structure while they are still growing encourages them to grow even stronger. The debate is always about how much is too much. The powers-that-be will never raise the age these horses are raised, so the question may be moot.

Now, in the horse forum, there are several members who own and breed race horses, or at least follow it closer than I do. Some of them argue that today’s top racehorses (the stallions anyway) are actually not run enough, and are akin to hothouse flowers. They are raced selectively and carefully to chock up enough careful wins to retire them to stud, and they are not tested nearly enough before passing on their genes to the next generation. “Big Brown” may be one of these in the making. He was raced only three times before yesterday, and if he goes on to win the TC, a smart investor would say he should be bubble wrapped and retired to stud before anything bad happens and spend the rest of his days making more thoroughbreds. In earlier years, he’d have been raced, and his racing performance would be his legacy. Oh he’d have been bred, but he’d have still had a day job, and it would only be those horses who were truly strong enough to hold up for the long term who would eventually retire to stud farms. I don’t know, but I’d guess an argument could be made that if you want a strong gene pool, you’d breed not from the fastest 3 year olds, but from the racehorses who are still running sound at 6 or 7 or beyond. Yes, you’ll break down a lot of horses, which is what they used to do. It was survival of the fittest.

So the argument is a lot of relatively weak genetics is having a trickle-down effect on the thoroughbred. TBs have notoriously weak feet. Ask any farrier. Thin, weak, brittle hoof walls. But with the advent of modern farriery, these horses can be fitted with shoes that allow them to perform anyway. Is the thin brittle structure of the feet only the most obvious indication of thin and brittle bones within? I don’t know. But a horse having bad feet these days does not prevent him from racing and breeding and passing on those genes either, the way it might have in the past.

Many TBs who don’t stay on the track certainly go on to successful careers as performance horses and jumpers. There’s nothing I’ve seen that indicates the mature TB does not have good strong bones. At least the genes that excel in jumping anyway...

At the farrier forum they believe that the advent of the tow grab shoe is contributing to breakdown. That the added traction increases stress to the limb. The inevitable sliding at each footfall without them greatly reduces the stress on the limb, and that slipping and sliding also would make them run more carefully... and slower.

Track surfaces also are often discussed, that the hard fast track of Churchill Downs is harder on horses than the newer rubber tracks. I’m sure it is. Good science needs to continue to be applied to the design of the surfaces to make sure they are as safe as they can be.... But that also would tend to allow inferior horses to run sound, contributing to that hot-house flower effect.

Anyway... after thinking about it and watching a lot of discussion, those are my thoughts, in no particular order.


42 posted on 05/04/2008 7:56:43 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog

ooops - now I see typos... “Age that they are raced”, and it should be “toe-grab shoes” not tow grab.


43 posted on 05/04/2008 8:01:29 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog

You know, the same folks that say TBs are over raced are probably the same ones claiming Big Brown couldn’t win because he hadn’t run enough.
I would contend that today’s TBs are under raced and absolutely agree with your point that young horses need to get out and play and bang around. Rough-house like kids do. Some of today’s horses are so valuable, they probably don’t do that enough.


50 posted on 05/04/2008 8:28:40 AM PDT by gate2wire (Even when you know, you never know.)
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To: HairOfTheDog

Hair, what a great synopsis. I have a question - do you think the “heart”, the unwillingness to be behind another horse, had a factor in the death of the filly? Breeders would be crazy not to desire that particular trait, but in the case of such an injury, might it lead to the horse literally running itself to death?


67 posted on 05/04/2008 2:49:09 PM PDT by Darnright (If "pro" is the opposite of "con", is progress the opposite of congress?)
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To: HairOfTheDog
The TB is probably the epitome of horse breeding. Every warm blood performance breed has been bred 1/2 to 7/8 thoroughbred. The TB is the most athletic horse. The bone is much denser than other breeds other than the Arab. The Arab has much smaller bones. The issue is that speed is due to youth and stamina and strength increases with age. The TB cannon bone is 2-3 times denser and larger on the front due to stress training of running under saddle. Without that training the bones never develop that way. The problem is the balance of too much stress and just enough. Trainers are getting better in checking with xrays and bone scans.

The idea that Native Dancer genes are transfer from 5 generation back and having weak ankles is not validated. The entire leg structure is very perfectly aligned. 1000-1200 lbs are poised on just a couple inches at 30 mph. IF a twist occurs , sever breakage is the result.

These horses are worked at a gallop 365 days a year and yet horses do not break legs all that often. Races generate a lot more stress and a filly is stressed even harder competing against colts who are larger and stronger.

Lippanzans do not mature that early and they are started later. The stress on their muscles are often greater than on the bones. TB's do mature early and if you looked at these TB's they had matured but not reached their full growth. Similar to teenagers being lean and fast with great balance and after 20 get larger and more muscular, but they are not as fast.

There are 1000's of races, yet there are only a few of the top races. These races of the Triple Crown and the Breeders Cup are the only races that are televised on network TV.

The Kentucky Derby is a challenge of champions, and it is meant to be. A classic distance of a 1 1/4 mile in early spring of a 3 year old that may have just really turned 3 years old. It is not meant for the lesser TB's. The reason hat fillys do not run in The Derby is that it is that much more difficult to win against colts. Yet if a trainer and owner have an exceptional filly they can compete if they want. The greater is the triumph is with the greater difficulty. There is no meaning to the win if it was easy. Sometimes the difficulty come with heartbreak when the horse is not capable but will still race it heart out. My initial thought is that her heart burst from the race. She beat every colt, but the best who was just that much better. Her form earlier did not indicate that she would be that good.

Part of the beauty and emotional high that a winning owner and trainer is that this pinnacle of achievement is so rare. To get a horse to win all three races is truly a test of champions. The Derby has run 134 years but there have only been 12 Triple Crown winners. But there is no chance to try is you do not run in the Derby first. IT is not meant to be easy, but instead very hard. Trainer's have the challenge of balancing training with getting the peak of performance over 7 weeks yet still qualify from previous stake wins.

Big Brown shown tremendous speed and ability and he has been raced lightly. He was started late November of his 2 year old year and his performances have been brilliant. Yet he has hoof issues. He suffered a 1/4 crack and they decided to not work over January to allow the crack to heal so it would not get worse. Eight Belles has been raced more heavily. The stress and microscopic fractures mave have been there and just enlarged with her tremendous race in the Derby.

On the replay I saw a moment that she threw her head up when trying to catch Big Brown. I am pretty sure that was when she had the minor crack and later the bones moved out of opposition and she collapsed. Her death is the tragedy. That is what makes racing so great is that great success and the comcommitant tragedy can occur.

I think NBC was correct is focusing the coverage on the winner. The winner deserved the acclaim. Yet her loss was felt but does need to be excessively dwelt upon. I have been at hunt races and seen horses break legs and die in the saddling ring. Thankfully in the hunt races that I ran my horse, she never hurt herself. But even if she had she would have died doing what she loved to do, which was to compete and run and jump. I competed one day at combined training and the next in a hunt race and the next week in hunter pairs which I did two heats of 7 miles each.

I did this for pure joy, not for money. I never won any money. There really is nothing like it for pure joy and exhilaration.

My mare finally was put down at 28 since she had arthritis and bute was not helping. But she had many years of competition , training younger horses and just hunting and trail riding.

Other horse have developed muscular, tendon and ligament problems that retired them much earlier and they were not full TB. MY mare was a registered TB, but had a English hurdler as her sire and was tough and durable with speed and agility. More than that she had brains. I once ran her in a hunt race in hail and pouring rain . The puddles turned into lakes and the final turn was on a fairly steep hill. My TB mare decided hell with fast and did a wonderful dressage collected gallop on that turn without any lean. I could have had a child on her and that child would have stayed on. We lost the race but survived. But she was sound and so was I and we went on to other events.

I have seen horsemen compete and ride with broken arms and legs. Their doctors think us riders are crazy. We love it that much. But we think more of our horses than ourselves, because we know our horse will put out for us more than they can really do. That type of heart and response to a rider is beyond explaining.

68 posted on 05/04/2008 3:10:41 PM PDT by fernwood (those who sacrifice freedom for safety, get neither)
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To: HairOfTheDog

Thank you for your indepth thoughts. These horses are glorious animals....standing still or running freely..but to lose one such as the filly yesterday is just too sad indeed.


70 posted on 05/04/2008 8:37:25 PM PDT by celtic gal
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