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To: CarrotAndStick
Most amusing discourse, but you failed to address the probability factor. You just mumbo-jumboed the party line. I have a party line as well. It starts out "in the beginning..."

My specific party is Christian, meaning I believe there was an earthly appearance of my God. He walked among men, and did some amazing things. There were witnesses. Can you change water into wine? Does your garment heal a woman, just by touching it. Or, is that some spontaneous adaptation that happened? It was witnessed, it was recorded. I prefer to call it a "miracle".

Some people go to school, and learn vast quantities of knowledge. They use that knowledge to help others. I took my claritin this morning. This greening also brings pollen. Is claritin an adaptation?

Proverbs 23

1 When you sit to dine with a ruler, note well what [a] is before you,

2 and put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.

3 Do not crave his delicacies, for that food is deceptive.

4 Do not wear yourself out to get rich; have the wisdom to show restraint.

5 Cast but a glance at riches, and they are gone, for they will surely sprout wings and fly off to the sky like an eagle.

6 Do not eat the food of a stingy man, do not crave his delicacies;

7 for he is the kind of man who is always thinking about the cost. [b] "Eat and drink," he says to you, but his heart is not with you.

8 You will vomit up the little you have eaten and will have wasted your compliments.

9 Do not speak to a fool, for he will scorn the wisdom of your words.

10 Do not move an ancient boundary stone or encroach on the fields of the fatherless,

11 for their Defender is strong; he will take up their case against you.

12 Apply your heart to instruction and your ears to words of knowledge.

13 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.

14 Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death. [c]

15 My son, if your heart is wise, then my heart will be glad;

16 my inmost being will rejoice when your lips speak what is right.

17 Do not let your heart envy sinners, but always be zealous for the fear of the LORD.

18 There is surely a future hope for you, and your hope will not be cut off.

19 Listen, my son, and be wise, and keep your heart on the right path.

20 Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat,

21 for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.

22 Listen to your father, who gave you life, and do not despise your mother when she is old.

23 Buy the truth and do not sell it; get wisdom, discipline and understanding.

24 The father of a righteous man has great joy; he who has a wise son delights in him.

25 May your father and mother be glad; may she who gave you birth rejoice!

26 My son, give me your heart and let your eyes keep to my ways,

27 for a prostitute is a deep pit and a wayward wife is a narrow well.

28 Like a bandit she lies in wait, and multiplies the unfaithful among men.

29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaints? Who has needless bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes?

30 Those who linger over wine, who go to sample bowls of mixed wine.

31 Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly!

32 In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper.

33 Your eyes will see strange sights and your mind imagine confusing things.

34 You will be like one sleeping on the high seas, lying on top of the rigging.

35 "They hit me," you will say, "but I'm not hurt! They beat me, but I don't feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?"

NIV

36 posted on 04/27/2008 5:13:40 AM PDT by WVKayaker ( "Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome..." I. Asimov)
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To: WVKayaker

I’ll just reply with this:

If Chriss Angel or David Blaine were to perform their acts 2000 years ago, a lot of people would have believed them to be God.

We have millions of people believing in this 1800s “prophet” that founded the LDS, what makes you think a much tinier number of people 2000 years ago would have been any wiser? Leave alone the fact that most were illiterate, and oppressed, and easily manipulable.

As for probability, a one-in-a-million chance looks pretty good when you give the event billions of trillions of chances.


38 posted on 04/27/2008 5:20:02 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: WVKayaker
Literature is endearing, and powerful; no matter where the source:

 

 

 

 

 
KRISHNA:


Yea! thou hast seen, Arjuna! because I loved thee well,

 
The secret countenance of Me, revealed by mystic spell,         310
Shining, and wonderful, and vast, majestic, manifold,  
Which none save thou in all the years had favor to behold:  
For not by Vedas cometh this, nor sacrifice, nor alms,  
Nor works well-done, nor penance long, nor prayers nor chaunted psalms,  
That mortal eyes should bear to view the Immortal Soul unclad,         315
Prince of the Kurus! This was kept for thee alone! Be glad!  
Let no more trouble shake thy heart because thine eyes have seen  
My terror with My glory. As I before have been  
So will I be again for thee; with lightened heart behold!  
Once more I am thy Krishna, the form thou knew’st of old!         320

 

SANJAYA:


These words to Arjuna spake

 
Vâsudev, and straight did take  
Back again the semblance dear  
Of the well-loved charioteer;  
Peace and joy it did restore         325
When the Prince beheld once more  
Mighty BRAHMA’s form and face  
Clothed in Krishna’s gentle grace.  
 
ARKUNA:


Now that I see come back, Janardana!

 
This friendly human frame, my mind can think         330
Calm thoughts once more; my heart beats still again!  
 
KRISHNA:


Yea! it was wonderful and terrible

 
To view me as thou didst, dear Prince! The gods  
Dread and desire continually to view!  
Yet not by Vedas, nor from sacrifice,         335
Nor penance, nor gift-giving, nor with prayer  
Shall any so behold, as thou hast seen!  
Only by fullest service, perfect faith,  
And uttermost surrender am I known  
And seen, and entered into, Indian Prince!         340
Who doeth all for Me; who findeth Me  
In all; adoreth always; loveth all  
Which I have made, and Me, for Love’s sole end,  
That man, Arjuna! unto Me doth wend.  
 
Here endeth Chapter XI. of the Bhagavad-Gîtâ,
        345
entitled “Viswarupdarsanam,” or “The Book
 
of the Manifesting of the One
 
and Manifold”
 

 

 

43 posted on 04/27/2008 5:36:38 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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