DETECTIVES: Chris Jenkins murder connects dozens around country

KSTP ^ | 04/23/2008 | Kristi Piehl

[Joe 6-pack]

"In the Wisconsin cases, there were too many, in too short a time period, for most local people to assume it was a coincidence."

Indeed...college kids have been drinking and stumbling home for far too many years without drowning for this to just be happenstance. I did consider the possibility of some type of online suicide pact, but certainly most of these kids appeared to have too much going for them. Likewise, the absence of any note (other than the various graffito) makes this seem unlikely.

Almost certainly there seems to be some type of coordination between different parties in the same movement. I also get the sense that these killings are not for some 'ritualistc' purpose so much as simply for the thrill or objective of killing. About the only close historical parallel I can even think of would be the Thuggee of India.

[Girlene]

Yes, it does sound like most had a lot going for them. Most sounded like high achievers, scholastically, athletically, or both. Many also sounded like they were quite connected to family and friends.

I’m not sure why the detectives think it was a “group” of killers versus one person who moves around a lot. That would be a first in serial killer history.

If this is the work of a serial killer(s), these young men fit a common profile. High achiever, attending college, lots to live for, nice looking, good shape, not loners, disappear from a college bar or party after getting separated from friends. Weird.

[Joe 6-pack]

"I’m not sure why the detectives think it was a “group” of killers versus one person who moves around a lot."

It's very difficult for one person to wrest complete control of another...even if they are somewhat intoxicated; especially if they're an athletically built 20 something. This seems to indicate that the killer(s) have some way of overpowering, or obtaining submission from the victims...either drugging, a female lure (which implies accomplices), as I suggested a cop or psuedo-cop, intimdation, either with a weapon or a number of people. Additionally, the geographic dispersion of these killings suggests multiple killers. The serial killer archetype needs to operate within a "safe zone". These may expand slowly over time, but the range of these is unprecedented. It seems to me there are several killers or "cells" of killers each with their own respective safe zones.

"That would be a first in serial killer history."

Not quite, although it is extremely rare. As I referenced above, the Thuggee/Kali worshippers in India are about the closest parallel I can think of. There was also the Hashishin, the Manson family and a handful of others. I suppose in that same context, one might make the argument that some of the early roving bands of Klansmen that performed more than one lynching were technically "group" serial killers, although they would probably have argued they were some variation of soldier-vigilantes. But having said all that, there is a lot about these killings that, if and when the truth is uncovered, will change the way a lot of us look at serial offenders in specific and the world in general.

[Polynikes]

“”I’m not sure why the detectives think it was a “group” of killers versus one person who moves around a lot.”

Listen carefully to Kristi Piehl on KQRS Morning Show
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s424554.shtml?cat=63v=1

She says there are witnesses who have been interviewed. She also said she was not allowed to disclose the ethnicity or ages yet. It was brought out that regarding the torture aspect if the victim showed signs of trauma they just never showed up. Only the clean victims showed up. Apparently each “pod” has its own style or variation. I am guessing this involves far more than 40 victims.

[Girlene]

Joe 6Pk, I can see how it would take more than one person. I should have said I'm not sure why the detectives think it's more than one "cell". That is highly unusual, not impossible. You make good points, though.

I had never heard of the Thuggee group before. Their motive (of robbery) makes some sense. These alleged "smiley face" killers seem to have no motive beyond the murder aspect.

Polynikes, regarding the ethnicity and ages, was the reporter referring to the possible perps?

[Polynikes]

“regarding the ethnicity and ages, was the reporter referring to the possible perps?”

Correct although I don’t know what to make of it at this time.

[Polynikes]

Looks like other folks are interested in rivers, not just distraught parents or retired detectives. creepy

http://cyberpaths.crimsonshadows.net/riverkiller/

[Sal]

Way past creepy!

She says there are witnesses who have been interviewed. She also said she was not allowed to disclose the ethnicity or ages yet.

Interesting. There used to be a link somewhere to the whole long ongoing police report on the Chris Jenkins case. It was like 37 or 38 pages and I read most of it. A lot of it was reports by police of the victim's family's investigator and volunteers and ongoing exchanges with the family.

I forget if it was a volunteer/friend or the PI who tracked down a witness who reported seeing Chris with another person who may be a witness or possibly a perp. The first witness was terrified and refused to talk to police, but he told the PI or the volunteer that among the guys he saw around Chris was one whose first name was ________, a very common ethnic name (religious might be more apt than ethnicity).

I got interrupted and shut my puter down and never went back. Now I can't find the link which may be ineptness on my part or the link has been pulled because the police want to conceal the ethnicity.

I also get the sense that these killings are not for some 'ritualistc' purpose so much as simply for the thrill or objective of killing. About the only close historical parallel I can even think of would be the Thuggee of India.

I'm somewhat familiar with the history of Thugs/Kali. There was a religious element there too besides the obvious motivation of stolen money.

There was also the Hashishin...uh huh....I suppose in that same context, one might make the argument that some of the early roving bands of Klansmen that performed more than one lynching were technically "group" serial killers, although they would probably have argued they were some variation of soldier-vigilantes. Agreed But having said all that, there is a lot about these killings that, if and when the truth is uncovered, will change the way a lot of us look at serial offenders in specific and the world in general. Agreed again.

I believe there is another religion that IMO is often used as a basically psychological and moral cover for serial killing.

[Girlene]

Interesting. I haven't seen that report. Here's a case that police are reviewing after the release of this smiley face serial murderers theory. Smiley-face murder theory considered in case of Delaware County man's death This was a suspicious drowning outside a bar on January 20.

.....At the township police station, Willoughby rattled off the likenesses between Booth's case and the 40 cases in the Midwest and Northeast that the detectives have identified: Booth was a white male between 18 and 25, between 5 feet 8 and 6 feet, and between 150 and 200 pounds. He drowned after a night of drinking at a college bar and he had no visible signs of trauma. When his body was found, he had his money, ID card and wallet but not his cell phone.

And there was the smiley face - replete with a crown - painted below the back deck of Bootlegger's, where Booth is believed to have entered the creek......

....The last people to have seen Booth are a barmaid and three girls, all of whom police have interviewed.

His body was found two weeks later behind the bar, in a creek no more than two feet deep. The creek froze over and searchers were unable to find him until the next thaw, Willoughby said.

A videotape at the bar shows Booth entering, but there are two other doors to exit the bar, one of which is monitored by video. Booth could have left through the unmonitored front door or he could have left through a back door, Willoughby said.

"If he exited the front door, he would have had to walk 300 to 400 yards to get to the creek," he said. "Then he would have had to walk 25 yards to walk down the creek. From the back door, the creek is less than 30 yards."

But, Willoughby said, the creek is shielded by 15 to 20 yards of debris. It's a place where landscapers dump their logs, sticks and branches, he said.

"You would have to fight your way to get back to the creek," Willoughby said. "It's always puzzled me how he got in the water and how he drowned in a foot-and-a-half of water, but I'm even more puzzled by how he got to the creek in the first place."

Most of these guys that have drowned have been white. I think there was one Asian.

[Sal]

Thanks for the update and link, Girlene. It upsets me to see authorities poo-poo information, especially with such a large number of unusual deaths.

Several police departments across the country and the FBI have already discounted the retired detectives' smiley-face theory in other cases. In a statement, the FBI said that a "majority of these instances appear to be alcohol-related drownings."

"We determined there is no serial killer or killers," Special Agent Richard J. Kolko told the Daily News this week.

He didn't say how they had determined that. It's easy to write it off as a bunch of young drunks stumbling into water and drowning--but in winter? There's no reason they'd be drawn to cold or almost frozen waters IMO. And then with so many similarities among the crimes.

A couple of them may have stumbled onto or into the water, but so many? I think they don't know what's going on and don't want to admit it, or worse, there are ethnic or religious elements that they do NOT want to open up.

I like this guy Willoughby because he's willing to look into things even though he's not sold on the theory. He's still tuned into the things that matter.

Still, Willoughby has arranged for one of the retired investigators, Gannon, to come to Ridley Township later this month to determine if the case could be linked to the ones he is investigating.

"I haven't accepted the theory, but I find the circumstances puzzling, even without this theory," Willoughby said. "Some of the clues to their puzzle match some of the clues to this puzzle. That's why I think we need to investigate all clues and all avenues.

"My goal is to come up with an answer for this mother who lost her son," Willoughby said. "Whether it's obtainable or not, I don't know."

[Polynikes]

“The first witness was terrified and refused to talk to police, but he told the PI or the volunteer that among the guys he saw around Chris was one whose first name was ________, a very common ethnic name (religious might be more apt than ethnicity).”

I saw that as well. A AQ connection is possible and random killings are part of their stated technique of terror but those guys want the “Infidel” to know he is being targeted sort of like the DC snipers. These folks are going to great lengths to commit the perfect crime, one that is not even seen as a crime. It is sort of a game or competition between cells or pods as in the game “Manhunt” or the old MTV show Buzzkill.

It also looks like the drownings happen mainly during the school year ie September - May with few in the summer. That could be explained several ways. More students around drinking around water so drownings go up but the cluster seems in the upper midwest to northeast. Statistically unlikely.

[Sal]

I saw that as well. A AQ connection is possible and random killings are part of their stated technique of terror but those guys want the “Infidel” to know he is being targeted sort of like the DC snipers.

I figured AQ or MB, etc. largely because of the witness/perp name and also because they would have no fear of contacting others like themselves and offering up such a plan.

I guess I'm being naive in figuring that people who play killer games would be cautious about approaching others for competition in the real world. Our culture has been degraded to the point where plenty of people could know about this and not turn anybody in even if they were the moral cream of the current crop who wouldn't participate.

I take your point about Islamofascists wanting infidels to KNOW they're being targeted because it makes them feel big and definitely would increase the terror.

OTOH the DC snipers weren't identified as Muslims for quite a while and they kept going. Of course, that was largely due to Chief Moose covering for them and suppressing evidence while giving out false information (white guys in a white truck/van...).

Whatever psycho scum these killers turn out to be, I sure hope they're permanently stopped PDQ. Who knows, maybe info passed on the net re: the two cops efforts will do the job just like the snipers were caught really fast after that cop disobeyed orders from Moose and released actual info.

[ProfessorGage]

I am intimately involved with this “case”, and I can tell you it is 100% pure, unadulterated, nonsense, bullshit, made-up, invented, crap from the minds of some VERY stupid people. There is not even the tiniest shred of truth in any of it.

[ProfessorGage]

I am intimately involved with this “case”, and I can tell you it is 100% pure unadulterated nonsense bullshit, made up invented crap from the minds of some VERY stupid people. There is not even the tiniest shred of truth in any of it.

[ProfessorGage]

Oh, yes, there IS a book, and it is pure crap. And, by the way, the smiley faces are a pure invention. The “detectives” involved were first peddling various “satanic graffitti” at the scenes. From a marketing standpoint, satanic was deemed too much a niche market, so voila, now it’s smiley faces.

[Joe 6-pack]

"I am intimately involved with this “case”, and I can tell you it is 100% pure unadulterated nonsense bullshit, made up invented crap from the minds of some VERY stupid people. There is not even the tiniest shred of truth in any of it."

I'm all ears, and frankly can only speculate on what's been presented thus far. Why not tell us how you are, "intimately involed," and what evidence can you offer that contradicts what's being presented. I'm always inclined to believe that the media will sensationalize anything to sell ratings, papers, etc. If you can blow this case open with solid evidence that refutes the assertions of the investigators, there's not place to do it like right here.

Just ask Dan Rather.

[ProfessorGage]

I am contractually prohibited from saying all I know, but I will send you a private note if you want more details.

But just ask yourself — a NATIONWIDE gang of serial killers, who target MEN, kidnap, and drown them without leaving a mark on their bodies, and successfully fooling cops around the country and the FBI, more than 40!!!!!!!!!!!!! times? Do you believe this?

[Joe 6-pack]

I certainly understand issues of client confidentiality, so I can understand why you might be unable to disclose info for those reasons; however, if there is in fact, nothing to this, I would be curious as to what issues there may be with disclosing a "non-story".

Certainly, the notion of a multi-state syndicate (for lack of a better term) operating as alleged, or at least as insinuated, seems unlikely, but I certainly would not rule it out altogether. From what I've heard, the bodies have generally been in a state of decomposition that has inhibited detection of defensive wounds or other marks. That they have fooled authorities over 40 times successfully is curious, but likewise, the similarities of the cases, the victimology, and if, as reported, the presence of similar graffito, also seems more than coincidental. The problem is, until any of the above is adequately refuted, or as you indicated, contradictory evidence can be clearly demonstrated, I've no choice but to critically examine what's been released, and thus far, the detectives and journalist have pieced together what appears to be some degree of correlation between a number of these cases, including some alleged witness testimony, so I'd be very interested to see/hear what you claim to have. Admittedly, this seems to be a house of cards at this point, but thus far, nobody has knocked it over.