Posted on 04/18/2008 7:34:25 PM PDT by Chief Engineer
C.'s Attorney General Wally Oppal has confirmed that some of the 416 children taken by authorities from a polygamist compound in Texas, are Canadian.
Oppal said officials in Ottawa gave him the news.
His statement came after Angie Voss, of Texas child protection services, said during a custody hearing in Texas on Friday that some of the children we from Canada, though she gave no details about how many were there, or how old they were.
The large group of children were seized from the compound after allegations of sexual and physical abuse were made, including forcing underage girls to marry men several times their age.
Oppal told The Canadian Press he had been alerted that some Canadians were involved. He said government officials would be getting involved, though it wasn't clear what their role would be.
Oppal said officials gave him the news because there is also a polygamist compound in Bountiful, B.C., and members have close ties to their American counterparts.
"This has been an issue for quite some time in that it has been said that at Bountiful there are said to be some Americans there as well," Oppal said.
"It sort of adds another dimension to the problem here. That is, that people move in and out of these communities and it's sometimes difficult to find out who's where and what."
Oppal said the call from Ottawa was "giving us a heads up because they know that we're involved in that same issue here."
Unprecedented ruling
In an unprecedented ruling, the judge in the case has ordered that all children in the case will remain in state custody.
The court heard that at least five of the children who are under 18 already have had children of their own.
The children were taken from an Eldorado, Texas compound which belonged to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The children, most of whom are being kept in a domed coliseum in San Angelo, range in age from 6 months to 17 years. About 130 are under 4 years old, Voss said.
Voss said that the children are taught "...no age too young to be married."
She added that there is "...a culture of young girls being pregnant by older men."
The court has heard that the girls would have little ability to say no.
Psychiatrist Bruce Perry said a child raised to be absolutely obedient would have, "the independent thinking of a much younger child."
Polygamous marriage is a central tenet for members of the religious sect.
The sect is led by their prophet, Warren Jeffs. Formerly on the FBI's most wanted list, the leader has been convicted and jailed for being an accomplice of rape by forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry her 19-year-old cousin.
He is now awaiting trial on other charges in Arizona. The sect came to West Texas in 2003, moving from its traditional home along the Utah-Arizona state line. Voss said the ranch was considered a special place, the sect's Zion.
Authorities raided the 1,700 acre raid after a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl on the ranch. The girls said she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old husband.
The girl has yet to be identified, though Voss said a girl matching her description was seen by other girls in the ranch garden four days before the raid began.
They had a valid warrant. They entered on the basis of that. They saw evidence of other crimes being committed. They sought, and received, another warrant based on what they saw and then acted on that.
Now, can someone PLEASE tell me which “rights” were violated? The only thing different about this case vs. other child abuse cases is that there are so many children involved. This is standard for handling child abuse cases.
When the warrant was issued, no one knew it was a crank call. Anonymous calls are often made by neighbors or even victims who fear retribution from the perps if their names are known. If a name IS known, it is usually put on the warrant, and the perps’ lawyers will know who it was.
Everyone who has seen the warrant believes (as far as it goes) it was a valid warrant. Whether the case will stand up in court or not is another matter.
I just have to add—there was NO warrantless search.
A valid warrant based on an anonymous phone call that may now be questionable at best. That should not be allowed in this country.
When will it be your neighbor calling you in for eating some banned food. And when the police break down your door at 2 a.m. with that “warrant,” and find out that you not only had that banned food, but you had a more serious violation.
INNOCENT until proven guilty. Based on an anonymous phone call, they had no grounds to enter to begin with. Much less take all of these children out and traumatize them even further.
We need to demand that our government get back to its foundations of treating us with basic respect and not viewing all of us as criminals that they just need someone to drop an anonymous complaint on.
And, when and if you do get an anonymous complaint, you need to investigate to see if there is actually a crime committed. Not rush in and then find your proof.
I know that the emotional response to what is happening to the kids in that situation are overwhelming, but we can’t dictate how people raise their kids. If there is an assumption of child abuse, then you need to prove the child abuse, then remove the abused child, and prosecute the abuser. But, if you don’t have evidence 400+ children were each abused, and all of the adults were guilty of abusing them in that situation.
So yes, I certainly see that rights to a warrantless search and seizure were violated because the grounds for the warrant were false, at best, if not outright criminal by the government.
and that is the problem they never tried to determine the truth
well time for me to go check horses and help friends load some wood have a nice day
It wasn’t a warrantless search, period. The courts looked at it and decided it was valid. Maybe you should wait awhile before taking the bar exam, because this is how it’s done in the U.S. They had a valid warrant, they acted on it. What else would you have had them do?
And yes, “innocent” people can have their homes searched, too. It’s part of the process. They simply cannot determine if these people are guilty or innocent until they investigate the matter. They can’t investigate the matter as long as the alleged victims are with the alleged perps.
As for evidence, they have proof that girls way under age were being raped by these sick old men, some, according to what I’m reading, as young as 12 with this group, but among other similar groups, as young as 10. The evidence was right there in front of the investigators when they entered: 13 year old mothers are a real giveaway.
And finally, I COMPLETELY AND VEHEMENTLY disagree that people can “raise their kids as they wish.” They can to a degree—but they are NOT allowed to pimp them out for drooling dirty old men, nor are they allowed to physically abuse them as they do with the waterboarding of their babies.
Frankly, I am just STUNNED that people here will stand up for this kind of behavior.
The "call" doesn't play a part in this.
Lucky you.
While there they observed pregnant underage females.
BINGO!!!! ~ Probable Cause.
Affidavit written. Warrent obtained. Raid, as it's been called, undertaken.
The question of the "perp" is a criminal matter being handled by different people. The welfare of the children is a civil matter and is not subject to the rules you normally find in criminal law.
So, next time they come to the gate and ask for Sarah, tell them the truth. It'll all be better in the end.
There were underage pregnant females. THat’s your “evidence”. Now live with it.
You’re tracking down their URLs aren’t you? For followups?
It doesn't work. That's why he's in jail for a very long time.
This is a civil action. Now, if the real parents will open their mouths for the swab we'll get on with this and find out whose kid is whose and that part will be over.
The husbands looking to get back their child brides might have to wait a tad longer ~ like 16 years to life in a convenient prison, but that part comes later.
Doesn't Warren have anything better to do in prison than write garbage? Shouldn't he be getting on with building himself a butt shield or something ~ he's gonna' be in there for a doggone long time.
No need to lose the benefits of waterboarding just because a bunch of perverts torture babies.
I saw the article about the court hearing. The CPS “investigator” was so SHOCKED by the underage girls pregnant. That has to be a good enough reason to seize the other 400 children. Maybe she should walk into any big city middle school or highschool. Maybe those underage teenage girls need to be ripped from their families because they are pregnant.
Why is it so shocking for this cult to do this and we have to take their children, yet we foster (as a society as a whole) this behavior in other arenas.
Thanks for the ping.
Larry King asked him if he had ever been to the compound in El Dorado.
He answered he had flown over it, while looking for his ‘daughter.’
It struck me as very strange. I might fly over a ranch looking for a cow or a dog, but I think if I lost a daughter I’d call Law Enforcement.
It sort of left me with the impression that capturing other sects pawns (children) is the name of the game.
There was an anonymous accusation that this was going on. There was nothing OBVIOUS about it. There was not an "investigation" until after the children were SEIZED!!!!!!! Yes, they were SEIZED!!!!
You should really take your emotions out of this case and look at it constitutionally.
My post is a defense of our rights as Americans, guaranteed under the constitution. Are you afraid of that?
I agree, kind of a strange comment!
This case just gets more interesting (and perverse).
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