FLDS women seek Texas governor's help

Deseret News ^ | April 13, 2008 | Nancy Perkins

[claudiustg]

SAN ANGELO — A Texas judge on Sunday ordered law enforcement officials to immediately confiscate all cell phones in the possession of FLDS women and children now housed in temporary quarters here. "I just called to say, hi. They are about to collect the phones, I think," one soft-spoken FLDS woman said during a telephone call to another member of the Fundamentalist LDS Church who was outside of the shelter. "I don't like what they're doing."

Several of the women inside the shelters spoke by cell phone to the Deseret News on Saturday to describe the living conditions there. Children could be heard crying in the background of each conversation. The News published an article on Sunday, quoting the women who complained there was no privacy and that their children were getting sick.

FLDS faithful outside the shelter are convinced Sunday's court order is a direct result of the women speaking to the newspaper.

"This is nothing more than retaliation of Child Protective Services to punish those who were disclosing what is really happening behind the walls of this concentration camp," said Don, an FLDS member who asked that his last name not be used. "These are my family members."

[JRochelle]

I am always stunned when people who frequent a conservative forum equate religious freedom and pedophilia.

The support that pedophiles have on this forum are disturbing and disgusting.

[JRochelle]

I don't think there is a jury in Texas who will give these pedophile enablers once single cent.

[zeugma]

Sad to say, that people here are condemning the government’s actions when they are defending the same actions prepetrated by the cult.

Actually, I have nothing to say about the actions of the members of this group at all because all I've heard so far is demonizing propaganda from the government.  I reserve judgment on them until the facts come out in court.

I am condemning the government because the rule of law has to mean something in this country or we are completely lost. From what I've read so far, the authorities jumped the gun a bit. I'm sure their search will turn up something to prosecure some folks there, because it's almost impossible to live one's daily life these days without breaking some law, but I'll be surprised if anyone is actually convicted on the charges being tossed around so freely here and in the media.

[najida]

So,
If I want to found a pseudo-christian religion, whose tenants include us 50 plus females having sex with boys young as 13, that's OK?

If our structure is such that everyone born and living in our community believes our sexual proclivities are the will of God, that is OK?

If the structure is such that all normal familial bonds including parent/child are broken, that 'spouses' can be taken away and given to other spouses via my declarations, it's OK?

If I can have as many boys as we wish as our husbands, no matter how young, for pretty much sexual and breeding practices, that is OK?

And lastly, if we cut them off from the outside world, deny them their basic rights to be individuals and keep them afraid enough they'll never seek to leave, that is OK?

Ya know, I think I'm on to something here......(Girls, ooooohhhh girls! Come here, I have a plan)./sarc (I mean, this may find a 'use' for the surplus 'lost' boys from these places.)

[najida]

I swear to God, if I have some free time, I’m going through the threads and saving some of the prize winning quotes. There are those who actually believe that a 15 year old wed to a 50 year old in this setting is a real and valid wife.

And those are the nicer quotes.

[najida]

What about their leader being in prison for multiple charges?

Or is that too demonization and propaganda from the government?

(note to self-— buy more Alcoa stock).

[Wallace T.]

Stalin's Gulag Archipelago was the end result of a gradual process of accumulation of state power by the Communist regime over a period of over a decade. Ditto for any of the dictatorships of the last century: the killing fields of Cambodia, Hitler's concentration camps, Mao's Cultural Revolution, etc. All these tyrannies started with the persecution of despised groups: the Tsarist aristocracy, former business owners, Jews, city dwellers, etc., first with discriminatory legislation, then mass imprisonment, and finally mass murder.

The issue is one of incrementalism, not the specific action done in this instance. If there was sufficient evidence to warrant protection of a crime victim and the arrest of the suspect. That is the American way, backed by the Constitution and hundreds of years of common law precedent. There was no call to remove hundreds of people from their homes without their consent when there is no evidence that they were either the victim or the perpetrator.

Was there intimidation and abuse going on at the FLDS community? Very possibly so, as has been the case with other cultic groups. Are polygamy and rape wrong? Absolutely, the Bible says so. However, the danger to civil society and individual freedom from large scale state action such as was done to the FLDS group in San Angelo is the precedent it sets. What if a liberal state like Massachusetts or California started rounding up homeschoolers or Jehovah's Witnesses because of their self-imposed isolation from the so-called mainstream? Should we shut down Catholic churches and parochial schools because of reports of sexual abuse?

I do not like a group of people who live in an immoral lifestyle that may be abusive. However, as long as the group does not pose a danger to society or threaten the overthrow of the government, it is better to tolerate the lower level abuse than condone the expansion of state power.

[nomorelurker]

Trying to catch up here on the recent news and comments. But I had to stop reading and correct your post. It was not a 911 call. It was a call(s) to some kind of abuse hotline that was then reported to LEO. If the call was not made to some kind of state agency and it turns out to be fabricated then it may not even violate some kind false report law. To my knowledge we have not seen the probable cause affidavit for the initial search just the CPS affidavit in support of removing the children they are two different things. Best info I have right now is that this was all kicked off by what seems to be rank hearsay. Ever day that goes by without the state saying that they have found the girl (I don't need more detail just that she exists) keeps confirming my suspicions.

[Centurion2000]

SAN ANGELO — A Texas judge on Sunday ordered law enforcement officials to immediately confiscate all cell phones in the possession of FLDS women and children now housed in temporary quarters here. "I just called to say, hi. They are about to collect the phones, I think," one soft-spoken FLDS woman said during a telephone call to another member of the Fundamentalist LDS Church who was outside of the shelter. "I don't like what they're doing."

What part of due process did the judge cite for this bullsh*t order?

[najida]

So, a religion that has sexual abuse of children woven into its fabric is something we should just let slide?

Interesting insight into your own mind.

[Yaelle]

Sorry — your Granny Clampett post just cracks me up! But you have a point!

[metmom]

So since you think that rape, incest, child abuse, welfare fraud, and all is protected because it's part of religion, then you would also think that human sacrifice would be OK because it's been part of religions around the world thorough out history and what business does the government have defining religion?

So we allow people to cut off the hands of thieves because it's part of their religion and we can't stop them? FGM? Stoning women who have been raped? Honor killings?

These are things we are facing today in the US. Should we stand by and turn a blind eye to sharia law because the government has no business defining or approving religion?

Can I now go and do anything I want, steal, murder, lie, and claim that it can't be prosecuted because it's part of my religion?

[najida]

Thanks :)

[JRochelle]

What is the real reason you are defending pedophiles

?Really.

You argument is so dumb, there has to be another reason.

Are you FLDS or belong to some other polygamist group?

[IamConservative]

I am always stunned when people who frequent a conservative forum equate religious freedom and pedophilia.

I am equally stunned when I see people who frequent a conservative forum surrender the right to due process. I find the practices of the FLDS church as morally repugnant as the next person, but, I also think those who have broken laws should be arrested, tried and sentenced in court if found guilty.

[najida]

Now your post I respect. You expressed both sides of the issue. Thanks.

[metmom]

Actually, I have nothing to say about the actions of the members of this group at all because all I've heard so far is demonizing propaganda from the government.

Then you aren't paying attention. The leader is in jail on charges of rape and sexual abuse.

You need to read *Escape* by Carolyn Jessop. Unless you think she's a lying government sympathizer.

Plugging your ears and singing La, la, la, laaaa,... I can't hear you. I s no way to make intelligent decisions. All that does is lead to more of the same abuse.

I guess you wouldn't be happy unless they were all back in that compound being raped and beaten and swapped like trading cards.

It's too bad so many people like yourself have no compassion or sense of moral outrage. THAT'S what is allowing this stuff to continue; people tying the hands of the proper authorities to prosecute crimes.

So what's your solution to this problem? How would you handle it? What are you doing to protect little girls from being raped?

[JRochelle]

So what would you have them do?

Take the children and leave all the mothers behind?

Those women are free to leave at any time.

They choose to stay with their children and bitch about the conditions.
You have to admit those women were most likely communicating with their husbands. Their sick disgusting husbands.

Those women will lie to the death if their husbands want them to lie. They need to be unable to communicate with the suspected criminals.

[metmom]

Ever day that goes by without the state saying that they have found the girl (I don't need more detail just that she exists) keeps confirming my suspicions.

Did it ever occur to you that they may never find the girl because she was killed for what she did?

Every girl that has been freed from that place is no different than that caller. In a sense, she has been rescued. Hopefully for real.

[antceecee]

You are so literal... have you ever heard of a metaphor?

Protecting the rights we cherish in this country is NOT equivalent to condoning purportedly religious behavior that breaks other laws (i.e., pedophilia, murder, assault). It looks like you are hung up on the freedom of religion clause... are there any other clauses in the Bill of Rights you would like to eliminate? Maybe the right to trial? Looks to me like that is what you are advocating.