Here is Joe.......circa April 2008....REALLY!
Posted on 04/06/2008 5:27:22 AM PDT by SkyPilot
Given time, some (not all) of these women will be able to extricate themselves from the Cult. Only the strong ones will be able to do this.
There are three Greek words that Paul used when saying “husband of one wife.” They are mia gune aner (in that order). Mia is the word which is translated of one, gune as wife, and aner as husband. In the original text the words only and but one are not found in any relation to these three words. However, these words have been added to many of the English translations that we have today.They go on to give more examples, the source for this quote is Here.
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.I know that my testimony came from God for God is not a liar. I have researched all the slanders from Joseph's Moon men to blood atonement to you name it, I have read it all and I have chased every one down to the underlying falsehood, oh I could write a doozy if I wanted to make money, oh I could read these books "exposing" my faith, I have read too many to care to read more, but I'll make you a deal, if you will read the Book of Mormon in faith and honestly ask God if it is his word, and I'll read your book if you still want me to, Deal? Back to Jacob: What follows in Genesis 30 is a sinful tale from start to finish, starting with jealousy in v. 1 (I guess now you'll tell us, DU, to be consistent, that since God blessed Jacob with many sons, that he sanctions human jealousy as well). Genesis 30, with babies born to 2 wives & 2 concubines, is a tale of baby competition where wives believe that if they bear babies to the patriarch, maybe then she can gain favor in his eyes. In fact, that's what many LDS plural marriages were reduced to in the 19th & 20th century.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh s not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
The story is told of two men having an argument on some point or the other, finally the first man man who's home they are in gets up, walks across the room and pulls a book from the shelf. Thumbing through the weighty tome he finds his spot and shows the other gentleman the passage.Books like the web quite often are not worth the paper / electrons they are printed with.
The second man now blinking in surprise now states well there it is in print, I guess I was wrong old chap.. out of curiosity, who wrote the Book?
The first gentleman replies "I did."
The argument resumes...
Here is Joe.......circa April 2008....REALLY!
I gues they want people to believe that Joseph Smith was a blond, just like their depiction of Jesus you see on the walls of most Mormon homes.
You really don't bother to read what I've posted back to you do you? I said that it was a composite work that was written over a period of 300 or 400 BC to 100 to 300 AD. The fact is that it was recognized by those at the time that it was pseudographical, written to infer authorship by Enoch, but was written by many others. There is no textural or physical evidence of its existance prior to that. It is a far stretch to say that it originated 4000 years earlier, given the facts.
Jesus quoted it so many times that one needs to read it to find the numbers for themselves.
I see you avoiding this religiously. Cite the passages in the Gospels that Jesus says are from Enoch (or remotely related). More likely than not - and already addressed numerous time - they are "attributed" to the portion of 1 Enoch known as the Similitudes, not in existence at the time for Jesus to even quote! So get unstuck and put up your best example.
Barnabas called Enoch Scripture:
You really don't read my posts. The Epistle of Barnabas is NT pseudography, written very late first to early second century - Barnabas was dead by that time. So there was no living Barnabas to make the claim - only unknown others.
Tertullien called Enoch Scripture:
<<<
ON THE APPAREL OF WOMEN,
Because Tertullien was opposed to eyeshadow, he favored Enoch. This is hardly an overwhelming scriptural endorsement. Further - which you don't cite- is his acceptance of Jude which was opposed by more than he because of the Enoch citation. It cuts both ways. Over the next section remember, paragraphs are our friends
“every Scripture suitable for edification is divinely inspired.” [See 2 Tim. iii. 16 — Interesting citation of 2 Tim, don’t you think? I’ve read elsewhere that this is one way of interpreting 2 Tim. — E.T.B.] By the Jews it may now seem to have been rejected for that (very) reason, just like all the other (portions) nearly which tell of Christ. Nor, of course, is this fact wonderful, that they did not receive some Scriptures which spake of Him whom even in person, speaking in their presence, they were not to receive. To these considerations is added the fact that Enoch possesses a testimony in the Apostle Jude.
FF Bruce regarding this passage states: Since 1 Enoch is not included in the Hebrew Bible, nor yet in the Septuagint (which of course, a Jewish translation), Tertullian hazards the unworthy suspicion (of a kind which he was not along among Christians in entertaining) that it was rejected by Jews because it spoke of Christ. He may have had in mind the 'Son of Man' who appears here and there thoroughout the Parables (Similitude) of Enoch ; but that 'Son of Man is not Jesus - he turns out, in fact, to be identified with Enoch himself. (Bruce, Canon of Scripture, p 86). As already shown numerous times before, Similitudes was not in existence at the time of Christ. So in this instance, Tertullian is simply wrong. The writings have to be scripture first to be scripture. Add to this that Orogen eventually came to the conclusion that 1 Enoch was not divinely inspired.
Well, is it cool in the cave?
They think they own the place religion!
(resty do they always get upset when you put them in their place?)
That’s just plain mean! Poor resty!
What mean about it, you only have a small say about the package plan the Lord has given his children here on earth!
You were roundly defeated by Godzilla.
Too bad you are to, um “highly functional” to realize it.
If I post to you, I expect a reply, if not, I will treat your post like the trash that it is.
You are a perfect example of the old adage; “garbage in, garbage out.”
I’ll make sure you are pinged to every single post I make against Mormonism. Hope you enjoy it. :-)
After the Jewish dispersion, the Septuagint was translated, and as YHWH stated, The rulers of Israel were in no relation to YHWH but punishment, though He is very aware and cares for them. So please stop trying to justify anything by the writings of those who had lost the meaning of the Message/doctrine of the Torah, in the goal of it’s teaching of bringing the knowledge of Christ to the world, by His Day of Atonement, so that all persons in Adam could be made clean and enter into the kingdom of God, in His ‘New Man’ name, by His Day of Atonement -as the Psalmist so stated in Psalm 118- and which Day Abraham saw, in Genesis 22, and rejoiced in.
Barnabas wrote his epistle after the temple was destroyed, in 70 AD, but you have no proof for a late date for the Epistle of Barnabas. You can argue all you want with other men’s arguments, but as Jesus was so versed in Enoch 1, and the doctrines in it, then his Apostles had no trouble accepting it and quoting it -as the ancient Jews did accept it, who used it.
The Didache and Barnabas are also closely connected, and as Peter said that he would make sure to leave such as the Didache for the Gentiles, before he passed on, then there is circumstantial evidence for a very early Barnabas.
Barnabas and Tertullien both called Enoch Scripture, and Tertullien quoted from the parables of Enoch which the Ethiopian copies carried. The dream visions are the only things missing so far from the Qumram caves, of that book, and there is yet so much to be discovered in those books that they may find them yet. At any rate, Barnabas quotes from them, and calls them Scripture, twice.
Tertullien calls them Scripture, also, as other early NT writers do, so as they were accepted as Scripture and called Scripture and quoted in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd centuries, then by your own mouth they are authenticated by early acceptance.
This is found in Enoch, sir, and not in Isaiah -though Isaiah refers to the statement made by YHWH in Enoch, Paul shows that Jesus Cghrist is that Son of Man, who is God and who was God, who was to come, and to whom the sum of all judgment is committed, by the Father:
“Phil 2 ; 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Those under the earth are the nephillim and the chained spirits,and every soul of Adam who died in unrepentence, who will confess Him LORD, God of God’s, King of Kings, as the Seated in Glory son of Man, as I pasted to you already from Enoch.
>>> [Chapter 63]
1 In those days shall the mighty and the kings who possess the earth implore (Him) to grant them a little respite from His angels of punishment to whom they were delivered, that they might fall 2 down and worship before the Lord of Spirits, and confess their sins before Him. And they shall bless and glorify the Lord of Spirits, and say:
’ Blessed is the Lord of Spirits and the Lord of kings,
And the Lord of the mighty and the Lord of the rich,
And the Lord of glory and the Lord of wisdom,
3 And splendid in every secret thing is Thy power from generation to generation,
And Thy glory for ever and ever:
Deep are all Thy secrets and innumerable,
And Thy righteousness is beyond reckoning.
4 We have now learnt that we should glorify
And bless the Lord of kings and Him who is king over all kings.’
5 And they shall say:
’ Would that we had rest to glorify and give thanks
And confess our faith before His glory !
6 And now we long for a little rest but find it not:
We follow hard upon and obtain (it) not:
And light has vanished from before us,
And darkness is our dwelling-place for ever and ever:
7 For we have not believed before Him
Nor glorified the name of the Lord of Spirits, [nor glorified our Lord]
But our hope was in the sceptre of our kingdom,
And in our glory.
8 And in the day of our suffering and tribulation He saves us not,
And we find no respite for confession
That our Lord is true in all His works, and in His judgements and His justice,
And His judgements have no respect of persons.
And we pass away from before His face on account of our works,
And all our sins are reckoned up in righteousness.’
10 Now they shall say unto themselves: ‘ Our souls are full of unrighteous gain, but it does not prevent us from descending from the midst thereof into the burden of Sheol.
11 And after that their faces shall be filled with darkness
And shame before that Son of Man,
And they shall be driven from his presence,
And the sword shall abide before his face in their midst.
12 Thus spake the Lord of Spirits: ‘ This is the ordinance and judgement with respect to the mighty and the kings and the exalted and those who possess the earth before the Lord of Spirits.’<<<
Enoch
>> [Chapter 46]
1 And there I saw One who had a head of days,
And His head was white like wool,
And with Him was another being whose countenance had the appearance of a man,
And his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels.
2 And I asked the angel who went with me and showed me all the hidden things, concerning that
3 Son of Man, who he was, and whence he was, (and) why he went with the Head of Days? And he answered and said unto me:
This is the son of Man who hath righteousness,
With whom dwelleth righteousness,
And who revealeth all the treasures of that which is hidden,
Because the Lord of Spirits hath chosen him,
And whose lot hath the pre-eminence before the Lord of Spirits in uprightness for ever.
4 And this Son of Man whom thou hast seen
Shall raise up the kings and the mighty from their seats,
[And the strong from their thrones]
And shall loosen the reins of the strong,
And break the teeth of the sinners.
5 [And he shall put down the kings from their thrones and kingdoms]
Because they do not extol and praise Him,
Nor humbly acknowledge whence the kingdom was bestowed upon them.
6 And he shall put down the countenance of the strong,
And shall fill them with shame.
And darkness shall be their dwelling,
And worms shall be their bed,
And they shall have no hope of rising from their beds,
Because they do not extol the name of the Lord of Spirits.
[And raise their hands against the Most High],
And tread upon the earth and dwell upon it.
And all their deeds manifest unrighteousness,
And their power rests upon their riches,
And their faith is in the gods which they have made with their hands,
And they deny the name of the Lord of Spirits,
8 And they persecute the houses of His congregations,
And the faithful who hang upon the name of the Lord of Spirits.<<
>> In those days I saw the Head of Days when He seated himself upon the throne of His glory,
And the books of the living were opened before Him:
And all His host which is in heaven above and His counselors stood before Him,
4 And the hearts of the holy were filled with joy;
Because the number of the righteous had been offered,
And the prayer of the righteous had been heard,
And the blood of the righteous been required before the Lord of Spirits.
[Chapter 48]
1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness
Which was inexhaustible:
And around it were many fountains of wisdom:
And all the thirsty drank of them,
And were filled with wisdom,
And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect.
2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits,
And his name before the Head of Days.
3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,
Before the stars of the heaven were made,
His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.
4 He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall,
And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,
And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.
5 All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,
And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.
6 And for this reason hath he been chosen and hidden before Him,
Before the creation of the world and for evermore.
7 And the wisdom of the Lord of Spirits hath revealed him to the holy and righteous;
For he hath preserved the lot of the righteous,
Because they have hated and despised this world of unrighteousness,
And have hated all its works and ways in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
For in his name they are saved,
And according to his good pleasure hath it been in regard to their life.
8 In these days downcast in countenance shall the kings of the earth have become,
And the strong who possess the land because of the works of their hands,
For on the day of their anguish and affliction they shall not (be able to) save themselves.
...
For they have denied the Lord of Spirits and His Anointed.
The name of the Lord of Spirits be blessed.
[Chapter 49]
l For wisdom is poured out like water,
And glory faileth not before him for evermore.
2 For he is mighty in all the secrets of righteousness,
And unrighteousness shall disappear as a shadow,
And have no continuance;
Because the Elect One standeth before the Lord of Spirits,
And his glory is for ever and ever,
And his might unto all generations.
3 And in him dwells the spirit of wisdom,
And the spirit which gives insight,
And the spirit of understanding and of might,
And the spirit of those who have fallen asleep in righteousness.
4 And he shall judge the secret things,
And none shall be able to utter a lying word before him;
For he is the Elect One before the Lord of Spirits according to His good pleasure
[Chapter 51]
1 And in those days shall the earth also give back that which has been entrusted to it,
And Sheol also shall give back that which it has received,
And hell shall give back that which it owes.
5a For in those days the Elect One shall arise,
2 And he shall choose the righteous and holy from among them:
For the day has drawn nigh that they should be saved.
3 And the Elect One shall in those days sit on My throne,
And his mouth shall pour forth all the secrets of wisdom and counsel:
For the Lord of Spirits hath given (them) to him and hath glorified him.
8 And the Lord of Spirits placed the Elect one on the throne of glory.
And he shall judge all the works of the holy above in the heaven,
And in the balance shall their deeds be weighed
9 And when he shall lift up his countenance
To judge their secret ways according to the word of the name of the Lord of Spirits,
And their path according to the way of the righteous judgement of the Lord of Spirits,
Then shall they all with one voice speak and bless,
And glorify and extol and sanctify the name of the Lord of Spirits.
10 And He will summon all the host of the heavens, and all the holy ones above, and the host of God, the Cherubic, Seraphin and Ophannin, and all the angels of power, and all the angels of principalities, and the Elect One, and the other powers on the earth (and) over the water On that day shall raise one voice, and bless and glorify and exalt in the spirit of faith, and in the spirit of wisdom, and in the spirit of patience, and in the spirit of mercy, and in the spirit of judgement and of peace, and in the spirit of goodness, and shall all say with one voice: “ Blessed is He, and may the name of the Lord of Spirits be blessed for ever and ever.”
12 All who sleep not above in heaven shall bless Him:
All the holy ones who are in heaven shall bless Him,
And all the elect who dwell in the garden of life:
And every spirit of light who is able to bless, and glorify, and extol, and hallow Thy blessed name,
And all flesh shall beyond measure glorify and bless Thy name for ever and ever.
13 For great is the mercy of the Lord of Spirits, and He is long-suffering,
And all His works and all that He has created He has revealed to the righteous and elect
In the name of the Lord of Spirits.
[Chapter 62]
1 And thus the Lord commanded the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, and said:
’ Open your eyes and lift up your horns if ye are able to recognize the Elect One.’
2 And the Lord of Spirits seated him on the throne of His glory,
And the spirit of righteousness was poured out upon him,
And the word of his mouth slays all the sinners,
And all the unrighteous are destroyed from before his face.
3 And there shall stand up in that day all the kings and the mighty,
And the exalted and those who hold the earth,
And they shall see and recognize How he sits on the throne of his glory,
And righteousness is judged before him,
And no lying word is spoken before him.
4 Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail,
[And she has pain in bringing forth]
When her child enters the mouth of the womb,
And she has pain in bringing forth.
5 And one portion of them shall look on the other,
And they shall be terrified,
And they shall be downcast of countenance,
And pain shall seize them,
When they see that Son of Man Sitting on the throne of his glory.
6 And the kings and the mighty and all who possess the earth shall bless and glorify and extol him who rules over all, who was hidden.
7 For from the beginning the Son of Man was hidden,
And the Most High preserved him in the presence of His might,
And revealed him to the elect.
8 And the congregation of the elect and holy shall be sown,
And all the elect shall stand before him on that day.
9 And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth
Shall fall down before him on their faces,
And worship and set their hope upon that Son of Man,
And petition him and supplicate for mercy at his hands.
10 Nevertheless that Lord of Spirits will so press them
That they shall hastily go forth from His presence,
And their faces shall be filled with shame,
And the darkness grow deeper on their faces.
11 And He will deliver them to the angels for punishment,
To execute vengeance on them because they have oppressed His children and His elect
12 And they shall be a spectacle for the righteous and for His elect:
They shall rejoice over them,
Because the wrath of the Lord of Spirits resteth upon them,
And His sword is drunk with their blood.
13 And the righteous and elect shall be saved on that day,
And they shall never thenceforward see the face of the sinners and unrighteous.
14 And the Lord of Spirits will abide over them,
And with that Son of Man shall they eat
And lie down and rise up for ever and ever.
15 And the righteous and elect shall have risen from the earth,
And ceased to be of downcast countenance.
And they shall have been clothed with garments of glory,
16 And these shall be the garments of life from the Lord of Spirits:
And your garments shall not grow old,
Nor your glory pass away before the Lord of Spirits.<,
There are many caves at Qumram. so were you in any of them?
Did you visit the place in Jerusalem where some of the dead Sea Scrolls are held?
Some of the caves -
http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Qumran_Cave_4_tb_n062500_wr.jpg
http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Qumran_Cave_4_interior_51-31tb_wr.jpg
http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Qumran_Cave_8_left_and_Cave_7_right_97-04tb.jpg
http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Qumran_Cave_10_on_right_Cave_4b_on_left_96-20tb.jpg
http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Qumran_Cave_6_with_Wadi_Qumran_in_background_96-30tb.jpg
http://www.bibleplaces.com/images/Qumran_Cave_5_with_ruins_in_background_looking_east_96-19tb.jpg
And you display it's usage quite well!
How do you save ‘em to village photo?
...you take two irrelevant and call me in the deluge
Boo Hoo!
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
--Joseph Smith
He had no proof - you have no proof.
I see you are still proving you have no knowledge of PRESBYTERIAN untruth.
#4000
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