Posted on 04/06/2008 5:27:22 AM PDT by SkyPilot
Local and state officials entered the temple of a secretive polygamist sect late Saturday, said lawmen blockading the road to the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
The action comes hours after local prosecutors said officials were preparing for the worst because a group of FLDS members were resisting efforts to search the structure.
The Texas Department of Public Safety trooper and Schleicher County sheriff’s deputy confirmed that officials have entered the temple but said they had no word on whether anything occurred in the effort.
The incursion into the temple caps the three-day saga of the state’s Child Protective Services agency removing at least 183 women and children from the YFZ Ranch since Friday afternoon. Eighteen girls have been placed in state custody since a 16-year-old told authorities she was married to a 50-year-old man and had given birth to his child.
Saturday evening, ambulances were brought in, said Allison Palmer, who as first assistant 51st District attorney, would prosecute any felony crimes uncovered as part of the investigation inside the compound.
“In preparing for entry to the temple, law enforcement is preparing for the worst,” Palmer said Saturday evening. They want to have “medical personnel on hand in case this were to go in a way that no one wants.”
Apparently as a result of action Saturday night at the ranch, about 10:15 p.m. Saturday, a Schleicher County school bus unloaded another group of at least a dozen more women and children from the compound.
Although members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or FLDS, have provided varying degrees of cooperation to the sheriff’s deputies and Texas Rangers searching the compound, all cooperation stopped once authorities tried to search the gleaming white temple that towers over the West Texas scrub, Palmer said.
“There may be those who would oppose (entry) by placing themselves between law enforcement and the place of worship,” Palmer said Saturday afternoon. “If an agreement cannot be reached … law enforcement will have to — as gently and peaceably as possible — make entry into that place.”
Sect members consider the temple, dedicated by then-leader of the sect Warren Jeffs in January 2005 and finished many months later, off-limits to those who are not FLDS members, said Palmer, who prosecutes felony cases in Schleicher County.
Palmer said she didn’t know the size or makeup of the group inside the temple.
The earlier refusal to provide access was even more disconcerting because CPS investigators have yet to identify the 16-year-old girl or her roughly 8-month-old baby among the dozens removed from the compound, Palmer said.
“Anytime someone says, ‘Don’t look here,’” she said, “it makes you concerned that’s exactly where you need to look.”
The girl told authorities in two separate phone calls a day apart that she was married to a 50-year-old man, Dale Barlow, who had fathered her child, Palmer said.
The joint raid included the Texas Rangers, CPS, Schleicher County and Tom Green County sheriff’s deputies and game wardens from the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife.
Although CPS and Department of Public Safety officials have described the compound’s residents as cooperative, Palmer disagreed.
“Things have been a little tense, a little volatile,” she said.
Authorities removed 52 children Friday afternoon and 131 women and children overnight Friday. About 40 of the children are boys, said CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner.
No further children have been taken into state custody since Friday, when 18 girls were judged to have been abused or be at imminent risk for abuse. CPS has found foster homes for the girls, Meisner said, and will place them after concluding its investigation.
Meisner declined to comment on the fate of the 119 other children and said authorities were still searching the ranch for others Saturday evening.
“They’re in the process of looking,” she said. “They’re literally about halfway through.”
How about that $145,000 earmark to Sistersville Sistersville General Hospital for computer system upgrades.
Hey! Let's change the subject again. Do you like poodles? What about labs? Which one is a better dog?
We could talk about Joseph Smith and his claims. In fact, I have had some young lads in white shirts, bad ties, and slinging book bags of single source literature just about banging my door down to talk about that.
Why are you so driven to change the subject now?
P.S.
I think I know.
How about we just don’t care what they call themselves and kick them out of Texas? You want them?
And yet, you want to tell us this was "good" and polygamy is "good."
Did you read this part (in red?)
Genesis 16:3-4 (Amplified Bible) Amplified Bible (AMP) Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation 3So Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar her Egyptian maid, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his [secondary] wife. 4And he had intercourse with Hagar, and she became pregnant; and when she saw that she was with child, she looked with contempt upon her mistress and despised her.
That tends to happen with women who are screwed (literally), and then when they turn a few years older, their man goes and brings another woman into the marriage.
Brigham Young gave a sermon about it and pleaded with his Mormon woman to stop "Whining" and to submit to spreading their legs for a man who had a literal harem.
I gotta tell you P-Marlowe: if you are defending this crap, you are one crappy person.
Tell me I am wrong.
Wow, you just showed back up after a two and a half year absence, welcome back.
Perhaps the LDS Damage Control Team needed a loyal worker.
Good work if you can get it. Maybe they even pay per diem?
I'm not defending anything. I'm merely stating the truth. Hagar was Abram's wife. She was given in marriage to Abram by none other than his first wife.
I find it interesting that although Sarai gave Hagar to Abram to be his WIFE, the minute Hagar conceived, Sarai began to HATE her. That, after all, is the fruit of polygamy. No self respecting woman can possibly share her husband with another woman and not hate that woman.
Tell me I am wrong.
You are free to think of me any way you want. I'm not going to pretend that Abram wasn't a polygamist just to prove that Mormonism is wrong. Abram was a polygamist and Mormonism is wrong.
And... so are you. :-)
____________________________________________________________________
Old Mountain Man sent me a Private Freep Mail. I wanted to share it:
What’s the matter? Not enough guts to respond to my true comment? As I suspected, another lying mainstreamer? A drunk?
__________________________________________________________________
Dear Old Mountain Man,
I am sorry you had troubles in your upbringing. I did too. My mother was mentally ill, and she killed herself. But, that has no bearing on this discussion. Neither does yours in the fashion that you raised it. It does explain your hatred of certain faiths or institutions, but it does not justify them. What you have done is simply channeled your childhood anger into a cult, and away from God because you associate anyone who is a Christian with your alcoholic parents.
I know a lot of ex-drug addicts and ex-alcoholics. I also know many ex-cultists.
If you wish to private Freepmail me again (but not in that previous manner) I will talk to you. I can understand you have some serious pain. So did I, and do. The difference is, I have Christ in my life. He is my best friend. He talks to me. Do you have Him?
Take care Old Mountain Man.
Where does it say that? I never read that God gave him something less than the first time.
You’re a gem, Elsie.
But don’t confuse them with the facts.
5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the Lord judge between me and thee.
6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.
Sarai felt bad because she could not conceive so she was jealous for thinking the Lord denied her it is a man emotion and really not how the Lord felt.
Can any of you ever discern the differents when reading scriptrue. The Lord did not judge Sarai.
In the scheme of things Ishmael too had to come into the world. A time will come when all people will learn to live togather.
Brigham Young gave a sermon about it and pleaded with his Mormon woman to stop "Whining" and to submit to spreading their legs for a man who had a literal harem.
****
If you Skypilot were walking with the Lord, the spirit of the Lord would not permit your ugly words to leave your lips! (of course such a thought would not cross a godly man mind)
Your tongue tells on you and the way you think, and those who follow you take something that God had sanction and turn it to your misguided ways of thinking.
Romans 1
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Sorry about your mom
God did not recognize Ishmael as Abram's son. When God told Abram to take Issac to be sacrificed, he told him to take HIS ONLY SON, Issac.
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. (Genesis 22:2 KJV)
The fruit of the polygamist tree is jealousy and hatred. Always has been. Always will be. Sarai did not have faith and so she gave Hagar to Abram as his plural wife. She regretted the decision from the first day.
FWIW Emma wasn't too hot on the idea either.
Resty, where do you get this stuff?
The two were identical. Exodus 34:1.
I dealt with this and another passage nobody else has mentioned (in Gen. 30) in post #1,760 to DelphiUser. Let me repeat what I wrote to DU:
With modern-day surrogacy, the husband doesn’t have to sleep with the surrogate. In Abraham’s era, obviously no such technology existed. Just because Jacob went in “to wife” [lit. wording of Gen. 30:4--meaning to have intercourse] with Bilhah did not change her status as a slave (Gen 29:29; 30:3) or as a concubine (Gen. 35:3). IOW, she didn’t “graduate” from slavehood to wifehood. The same is also true of Hagar. As you read Gen. 16 in context, you will see that even after Abram slept with Hagar, he doesn’t reference her as his “wife.” He says to Sarai: ”Your servant is in your hands,” Abram said. “Do with her whatever you think best.” Then Sarai mistreated Hagar…” (Gen. 16:6) [What? Do you think of Abram as being some totally inept "husband" who wouldn't keep his new supposed "bride" from being abused?]
The Angel of the Lord, whom some believe is the appearance of the pre-incarnated Son of God, then pays a visit to Hagar. Does He call her “Hagar, new wife of Abram?” (Nope): ”The angel of the Lord found Hagar…he said, ‘Hagar, servant of Sarai…” (Gen. 16:8)
Bottom-line? Hagar wasn’t serving Abram as his extra wife; she was serving Sarai as her surrogate! Abram still references Hagar as “your servant” and the Angel of the Lord references her as “servant of Sarai.” (post-conception).
Likewise, Genesis 30--with Jacob’s two wives & the two servant girls--is all about overblown surrogacy--a baby competition fueled by jealousy (Gen. 30:1)...& please note, that this is exactly what many of the 19th century LDS families degenerated into! (Jealous baby competitions in which women like Leah tried to win love & favor via childbirth)
Since you are the one who is trying to say that surrogate slave girls is the equivalency of 19th century LDS polygamy, if they truly were equivalent, then I suppose you are trying to tell us all that every “add-on” LDS wife's primary identity was exactly like Sarai's & & Leah's & Rachel's servant girls. Are you truly contending that the second, third, fourth, etc. wives of 19th century LDS men found their primary identity as mere maidservants or slave girls to the first or second wife (NOT to the husband/patriarch)? Is that so?
And let me add this that I didn't cite in my last post to DU:
Are you trying to claim that "wives" of these patriarchs--not mere "concubines"--who would go around & sleep with their stepsons all too frequently? Notice that Reuben slept with Rachel's servant Bilhah the "concubine" (Gen. 35:22) & that all Israel knew it. (Why no objection from Reuben's father, Jacob, if Bilhah was not of a different status?) Notice, too that Absalom slept with his father David's concubines (2 Sam. 16:21-22). (Why no objection from Absalom's father, David, if these women were not of a distinct status?)
The Hebrew word for "concubines" was of non-Semitic origin & some commentaries even think that "concubines" were non-Jewish women. Consistently they were slaves--for example Jerubbaal's unnamed concubine (Judges 8:31) is also referenced as a "slave" (Judges 9:18). One Bible dictionary says: "Scholars who affirm that concubines were slaves generally understand Exodus 21:7-11 as regulating men's treatment of their concubines even though pileges [Hebrew word for concubine] is nowhere used in these verses."
In addition, no brideprice was paid for concubines, unlike the wives of their culture. Pure & simple, concubines were maidservants & slave girls. That was true of the so-called "wives" of David--called "concubines" in 2 Sam. 16:21-22. That was true of Bilhah called both a concubine (Gen. 35:22) and a slave (Gen. 29:29; 30:3). Finally, are you & DelphiUser going to try to continue convincing us that all this sleeping together with three slave girls by Abram & Jacob was an act of faith? Or, as the accounts convey, was it actually these two and their wives acting against faith in God's promises?
Ever if I showed you would that make a difference in your mind?
none of the mainstram cared so far about what the scriptures really say!
When did OMM gvie you permission to share his freepmail?
You obviously are an untrustworthy scumbag. There will never be any further private conversations between us.
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