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To: tabsternager
"You consider the obscure statement by Irenaeus “strong evidence”?"

What makes this statement any more "obscure" than any other statement by Irenaeus or any other early Church father by the way? Irenaeus is very clear in stating John's imprisonment occured on Patmos "in my own lifetime, at the end of Domitian's reign". This is very consistent with both the internal text and with the practice at that time of using the reigns of the Roman emporers to date events. Eusebius cites this and also says there is "ample evidence" John was imprisoned during the reign of Domitian. This makes historical sense because there is no evidence that Nero, Vespasian or Titus ever banished anyone to Patmos. None. If Revelation was written early the author would have been banished there by one of these Emperors (or Caesars if you like) but there is zero evidence to support anything of the kind. The persecutions of Nero were confined almost exclusively to Rome and it's surrounding area.

The only significant mention of the island of Patmos in all of ancient writing is the fact that Domitian, during the Christian persecutions, banishish people there to be slaves. So the ojective historic evidence compells the conclusion that John wrote Revelation on the island of Patmos during the reign of Domitian, somewhere between 91-95 AD.

32 posted on 03/07/2008 3:48:50 PM PST by joebuck (Finitum non capax infinitum!)
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To: joebuck

In the quote from Iraneus above I left off the word “almost” at the beginning. It should read “almost in my lifetime.....”


33 posted on 03/07/2008 3:52:04 PM PST by joebuck (Finitum non capax infinitum!)
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To: joebuck

Was Irenaeus supposedly referring to Domitian or Domitius (Nero)? Did he mean “it” was scene or “he” (John) was seen in their own lifetime? Who knows? It was reported third hand by Eusebius in AD 325 anyway; yet so many hold to the late date even though that’s all they’ve got to go on.

The oldest earliest Syriac version of Revelation, the book starts with “The Revelation which was made by God to John the evangelist in the island of Patmos, into which he was thrown by Nero Caesar.”

Again, Irenaeus in “Against Heresies” mentioned “ancient copies” of Revelation. Domitian’s reign ended only shortly before Irenaeus’ own time.

As far as the internal evidence, John wrote to the seven churches. The ONLY period of time where there were only seven churches in Asia was during the few years from the early 60s AD to the Jewish war.

In Rev 10:11, John was told that he “must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings”.
When he was in his 90s?? That’s a pretty tough job assignment, especially when John could barely walk and was last seen being carried into church in the ‘90s.

Again, there is NO INTERNAL EVIDENCE pointing towards a late date. From both external and internal evidence, an early date is the only option.


37 posted on 03/08/2008 5:52:24 AM PST by tabsternager
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