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To: Brilliant
To me, the interesting thing is that the Bible itself says that salvation is a matter of faith. So if it’s a matter of faith, then what amount of “proof” or “evidence” or scientific logic can shake it? If you could prove that the Biblical account was true, then there would be no need for faith, and the Bible would be a lie.

Actually, not. Jesus walked among the disciples, taught them, declared in no uncertain terms who He was, was even willing to let Thomas, who doubted, to place his hands in the wounds. You can't get more evidence than that, and yet each of those men save Judas, were men of great faith, great enough that they were willing to die horrible deaths rather than renounce Jesus.

Jesus also said that they were blessed because they saw and believed, but greater blessing would be on those who believed without seeing.

John 20:24-31 Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."

A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

There's also the evidence of Jesus being who He said He was in Scripture, His miracles (which Jesus said testified of Him), the eyewitness accounts of the people who saw Him killed and after He was resurrected.

Faith certainly doesn't mean believing something there's no evidence for, on the contrary, the evidence strengthens the faith. Nor does it mean believing something you know isn't true, as I've seen erroneously posted on this forum.

God is the one who provides the evidence and uses it to convince unbelievers. Clearly, it's not wrong to believe because you've seen that and it doesn't make it *not faith*.

216 posted on 02/25/2008 5:21:02 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
Also John 20:3-9 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)
220 posted on 02/25/2008 5:51:30 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

sure.... but evidence is not the same as proof.


222 posted on 02/25/2008 6:07:14 AM PST by Brilliant
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