Posted on 02/24/2008 4:18:12 PM PST by no nau
Without reading every post.
Did anyone explain, through science, how this universe ever got started?
[[The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts. And why do we interpret facts differently? Because we start with different presuppositions.]]
Bzzzt! Wrong! ID confines itself to evidence- Science goes beyond evidence to suggest imaginary scenarios. Baraminology studies lines until they discontinue- Macroevolutionary science leaps into the realm of imagination and ‘fills in’ the imaginary missing links
[[All reasoning is based on presuppositions (also called axioms).]]
Not true- Forensic science follows the evidence in an unbiased manner- not knowing where the evidence will lead- the strict science STOPS when the evidence discontinues- the agendists within science then jump in to assume this and that imaginary scenario.
[[However, if we weren’t there in the past to observe events, how can we know what happened so we can explain the present?]]
Many foresnic investigations can reveal a great deal about past events- for instance, science can determine to a fair degree just by analyzing bones composition, what the diet of the species consisted of by comparing available food’s chemical makeup and the residue present in bones. Strict scientific forensics can determine quite a bit- it’s only when the Macroevolutionsits come aboard that we see an abandonment of strict science and see fantastic hypothetical situations introduced which have absolutely zero scientific evidence to support- infact, we see scenarios suggested that are biologically impossible.
[[Christians of course claim they do, in a sense, have a ‘time machine’. They have a book called the Bible which claims to be the Word of God who has always been there, and has revealed to us the major events of the past about which we need to know.
On the basis of these events (Creation, Fall, Flood, Babel, etc.), we have a set of presuppositions to build a way of thinking which enables us to interpret the evidence of the present]]
More than that, we have sceicne that backs up what the bible says, and we have actual eyewitness accounts. Further, we have personal relationships with God who proves Himself trustworthy in our lives, thus further givign credence to what was said in His word. God often backs up His claims in our lives in personal ways that outsiders simply can’t imagine- however, their skeptical cynicism in no way refutes what Christians know to be true.
[[Thus, when Christians and non-Christians argue about the evidence, in reality they are arguing about their interpretations based on their presuppositions.]]
Somem ight- but more educated Christians argue ACTUAL FACTS while the Macroevolutionist argues fantastic imaginary hypothesis which has no scientific evidence to support.
[[I’ve found that a Christian who understands these things can actually put on the evolutionist’s glasses (without accepting the presuppositions as true) and understand how they look at evidence.]]
Oh, we understand it alright- but it doesn’t take glasses to come to the obvious conclusion- Evolutionists are heavily invested in a Godless Macroevolutionary scenario that is devoid of evidence, and as such, they will never admit defeat no matter the amount of scientific evidence AGAINST their hypothesis. It doesn’t matter to them that their hypothesis is biologically impossible, mathematically impossible, and statistically impossible- to htem time+mutation is impervious to impossibilities.
[[As a teacher, I found that whenever I taught the students what I thought were the ‘facts’ for creation, then their other teacher would just re-interpret the facts. The students would then come back to me saying, ‘Well sir, you need to try again.’]]
No you don’t- You simply need to stick your guns! The scientific facts speak for themselves- anythign beyond the facts- like Macroevolution delves in, relies on nothign but fanciful imaginations and a system that miraculously must have overcome incredible impossibiltiies if it were true. This is hte bottom line No Nau- Science supports Discontinuity, Science refutes Macroevolution! Period! You just stick to hte facts and you will be above the fray and will be an example to anyone who wonders what TRUE OBJECTIVE SCIENCE REALLY shows!
[[What was happening was that I had learned to teach the students how to think rather than just what to think.]]
That is imperative- For too long our kids have been spoon fed BAD science! They have been spoon fed an agenda- NOT TRUE science! Again- just present the facts about science, and teach our kids to observe objectively without breaking out into some fantastic biologically impossible logic in order to support a failed hypothesis. Again- the science and evidence is on your side- let them speak for themselves- they tell the story everytime consistently!
For someone so hung up on intelligence, you sure look stupid when you state that schools are *finally* going to start teaching evolution. They have been for decades to the complete exclusion of any other option.
What rock have you been living under? Time to join the 21st century.
LOL!! So true.
Mr. Ham is talking about the Biblical doctrine that the wages of sin is death. That death entered the world upon man's fall into sin. If the fossil record shows billions of years of death and disease before man then how can death be related to sin. If the fossil record shows millions of dead things, in rock layers, layed down by water, all over the earth then it affirms the Great flood of Noah. How one interprets the fossils and geology is determined by one's presuppositions.
Evolution is just the misinterpretation of the observed variation within species.
Jesus spoke to the masses in parables, however, privately he explained them to the disciples and we have benefit of both. Jesus also said I have foretold you all things, but He did NOT say that everybody would believe.
It is also Written that it is NOT given for all to understand, and the Heavenly Father will do the judging in regard to 'ignorant' or the 'willingly ignorant'.
[[Dr. Kurt Wise: “..Given what we currently think we understand about the world, the majority of the scientific evidence favors an old earth and universe, not a young one. I would therefore say that anyone who claims that the earth is young for scientific evidence alone is scientifically ignorant. “]]
I just got an email from myself that said “Given that a majority of old earth ‘evidence’ relies HEAVILY on assumptions about UNKNOWNS, and relies on methods that aren’t accurate beyond 7000 or so years, those hwo suggest that young earth believers are ignorant are themselves guilty of a priori agendist propoganda and are guilty of self deluded opinion of htemselves.
Kurt can beleive whatever he likes- but his arrogance and pompous attitude show a VERY clear a priori snobbery that is rife within the scientific comunity and which gives TRUE science a VERY bad name!!! [snip]...
It either God or magic. Some people seem to prefer magic over God.
[[Some people seem to prefer magic over God]]
That’s too bad- magic won’t help them when it’s too late to turn to the truth.
” if He told us, we wouldn’t understand.”
No kidding.
We barely have scratched the surface on the Earth.
We don’t yet even understand the mechanism of gravity.
The weather is a complete mystery to us.
we claim to be able to explain the Universe.
And every day our explanations must change to match newly discovered facts.
We may never, in our lifetime, understand all that GOD has wrought.
Maybe not even in the lifetime of human civilization on the Earth.
The data is the same.
But very few have access to the same data.
For instance, you have in your head certain ‘knowledge’ of the fossil and geologics record.
Me too.
I would almost guarantee that neither of us has the ‘same’ content.
It would be nice if everyone was given the same ‘data’.
But they aren’t.
Until God gives you the wisdom to understand that God is also responsible for science.
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