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To: Friend_from_the_Frozen_North

That is a gross generalization of Islam. And it ignores that many Christian churches go into countries and proselyte when the law prohibits them from doing so. And those same Christians lie in order to get around the law.

Christ like?


78 posted on 02/13/2008 12:42:55 PM PST by tortdog
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To: tortdog

“That is a gross generalization of Islam.”

Might this unenlightened one inquire as to which aspects of that post are gross generalizations, and the Sura on which you base your position?

Thanks.


83 posted on 02/13/2008 12:56:37 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principle)
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To: tortdog
Christ like?

Changing the subject?

85 posted on 02/13/2008 1:10:23 PM PST by skeeter
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To: tortdog
That is a gross generalization of Islam.

Have you ever read the Koran? Or Hadith?

I’ll give you a few gems from the Religion of Peace:

The Koran:

Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution of Muslims is worse than slaughter of non-believers...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Sura (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Sura (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Sura (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

Sura (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Sura (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Sura (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Sura (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Sura (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make them prisoners,"

Sura (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"

Sura (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end

From the Hadith:

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’”

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq: 992 - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."

87 posted on 02/13/2008 1:19:10 PM PST by FatherofFive (Choose life!)
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To: tortdog
"That is a gross generalization of Islam. And it ignores that many Christian churches go into countries and proselyte when the law prohibits them from doing so. And those same Christians lie in order to get around the law..."

It is not a gross generalization of Islam but a well documented list of murder and mayhem perpetrated by the nations of Islam against Christian and other minorities all over the globe. Darfur is only one of the most recent examples of the actions of Islamists against Christians.

Regarding proselytiz(ing) when the law prohibits them from doing so, it's a matter of who's Law is Higher; should we obey the Law of Men and Nations or the Commandments of God? Jesus said in the last Chapter of Matthew, "19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen" If He is God as many think and believe he is, then Christians must disobey the laws of men in order to follow the Will of God. The United States endorses Freedom of Religion but this 'freedom' (like all of the others that are prescribed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights ends at someone else's nose). This means everyone if free to follow the Religion of his or her own choosing (or to make up a Religion of their own if one does not exist) but that freedom does not exist in most other places around the world but you don't have the right to kill someone who doesn't want to hear your version of "the Truth".

I understand that there are many people who have a great deal of disagreement with the "exclusivity" of Christianity; that doesn't change the fact that the nature of who Jesus said He was and what He taught His Disciples is very much "exclusive" (according to John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.").

90 posted on 02/13/2008 1:43:47 PM PST by Friend_from_the_Frozen_North (If you are, as Rush would say, "A Glittering Jewel of Colossal Ignorance" don't waste my time...)
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