[JasonC]

If I take the specifics cited literally, the real hatred of McCain seems to come from him not only being critical of conservatives at times, but from the nasty fact that he's right.

Pat Robertson is an agent of intolerance. I've read his books, or those he let go out under his name, and smearing masons as a grand satanic conspiracy controlling the world is definitely agent of intolerance stuff. It is also nuttier than fruitcake.

Waterboarding is torture. We shouldn't use it (and presently we don't).

It was entirely legit to attack Kerry over his VAW reckless allegations, but much less legit to smear his actual service in Nam, which was honorable enough.

[supercat]

Waterboarding is torture. We shouldn't use it (and presently we don't).

My understanding is that the U.S. subjects some of its own men to waterboarding as part of their training. Someone may correct me if I'm wrong. I could understand a rule requiring that we not subject our enemies to interrogation techniques we'd be unwilling to inflict on our own people are part of training, but if our own people are willing to be subjected to such techniques I would consider them fair game.

[ScubieNuc]

Waterboarding is torture. We shouldn't use it.

To you waterboarding is torture and you believe we shouldn't use it. I believe we need to have an open discussion on what America defines as torture.

Pulling out finger nails, breaking bones, drilling into teeth fall in line with my definition of torture. These things inflict permanent physical damage. Waterboarding inflicts fear but no permanent physical damage.

When I was in Navy Dive School, part of our training involved having water fill your sinuses while swimming on your back with your face mask filled with water. In some people it causes great panic and a fear of drownding and they quit. I wouldn't call that torture.

To some people not getting 8 hours of sleep is torture. So lets have an open discussion on what methods we are allowed to use for interogation. I say if fear of drownding causes people to give up information I say use it.