[muawiyah]

There are something like 8 different existing foreign worker visa programs. All are failing. Some of the programs have been subverted by criminal interests who deal with the foreign workers like they are commodities or peons and not human beings.

Why would one more foreign worker visa program make it all better?

You'd best examine the situation on the ground and get your head out of the theories about foreign worker visas.

[Cold Heat]

I don't doubt that there are problems. I see them. The existing problems are with the sponsors, and also the workers who skip the job, overstay the Visa and become one of the millions of illegals.

When all this crap started several years back with the anti's and the pro's, I made a comment a few times that most of the illegals were not coming across the border. That traffic is mostly people who came, went home, and are coming back in.

I cited proof with stats on the hundreds of thousands....millions of overstayed visas, including the 9/11 terrorists.

The reason these problems exist is because for years the bulk of the small amount of money put into the government agencies that oversee these visa programs was going to border enforcement because the people demanded it. They never had enough either.

This is all due to the failures of Congress, and I think we all can agree.

But let me tell you one thing. You don't have any valid reason to take me to task over this issue because we both want the same thing. We both want a safe and secure border and border States, and we both want to stop the burgeoning illegal problem.

The only difference is that we have different ways of addressing it. We see different things as possible fixes, and we have only slightly different priorities.

We can fix the visa problems, but it will take money and resources plus a lot of new hires. We can fix the border.

What we can't afford to do, is create a permanent underclass in our society so that we look like France, and parts of Europe with a entire sectors of people who hate the government and the people of France or insert country here______ enough to kill them because of the long years of mistreatment, that was not intentional on the government's part. It happened because the society saw the immigrants as second and third class people and would not let them assimilate.

This will happen to us if we are not careful, and it may well be happening now. I believe it is well into a spiral that will cause us more problem then we know. But it's not too late to fix it. In the case of France, it may well be too late. It gets worse each and every year and they are not Mexicans, they are from dozens of countries...dozens..

This is a very serious issue. I don't think McCain even understands it. I know the Congress does not. Bush does. He tried, and left the details to Congress. What they came up with was garbage. We can even agree on that.