Posted on 01/28/2008 5:38:11 AM PST by TexasNative2000
I believe the Pats acquired Wes last year in March or April. Thus the Fishy one is busted.
I thought that was the case. I find it quite hard for someone to sell his soul in a situation that hasn’t even happened yet.
And, by the way, the Patriots* were not one of the best teams in the league before Welker's arrival. They lost in the playoffs the last two seasons and they went out and found Welker and Moss. Two of the three main keys to their ultimate success this season.
Welker is certainly worth a whole lot more than he was when the Patriots* picked him up. Credit that to the Patriots* fitting him into an offensive scheme that best utilizes his talents.
Unfortunately for him, he landed in a now heavily tainted organization that puts winning above the rules of the game. Welker, I'm sure wasn't aware of the cheating that was going on last year before he joined the team (although there were quite a few teams who were suspicious and according to what I have seen and read, it does go back beyond last year such that even Charlie Weis could share a little insight into the matter. And that, BTW, is highly disappointing to this long-time Notre Dame football fan) but Welker AND Moss did have a good idea what was going on from the moment they picked up their playbooks and into the start of the year. That is guaranteed.
I played the game myself and as an offensive starter, if you have half a brain, you would know something was up. Everybody has a role to play. They may not know what everybody else's role is in the scheme but they have their own role. To believe otherwise is to believe that Wes Welker is a total idiot and was totally oblivious to what was going on around him. I give Welker a little more credit than that. Hell, even the kicker knows what they are doing. He's there, he starts questioning how they can call the perfect play in any situation, how they "seem" to know every single time the blitz is coming, etc... The sports press and Patriots* fans tries to sell the line that it's just coaches that were involved and the players are completely oblivious and that is complete an utter nonsense.
As for the records? The kicking and returning kicks "record" speaks to his abilities as an athelete. His job on the field was to return kicks, that's a given. He fell into the kicking duties in a game where their kicker was not available and he was able to step in and perform. That's awesome! That's something he can tell his grandkids about. But that's not a "record" as much as it is a "feat". Players are not actively trying to break that "record". A team does not draft a kicker/kick returner. The fact that Welker had a Dolphin record for returning kickoffs speaks well about his durability because the Dolphins were receiving an awful lot of kickoffs. I'll spell it out for you: The Dolphins have been the worst they have ever been the past few seasons and they were giving up a lot more touchdowns and field goals than they ever have. And what do they do after they give up a touchdown or field goal? The other team kicks the ball off to them! You see how that works?
And as for Welker's shared receiving record. That was this season, after the Patriots* picked him up at a bargain basement price. Now, the trick is to re-sign Welker. That contract will definitely prove to be a lot more costly to the Patriots* this time around.
I especially love how you keep saying the Pats cheat, then point out that they didn't win.... they must be really bad cheaters, huh?
And for the record, yeah I believe they cheated too - that isn't the topic here - This was a thread about a good kid who finally got a chance to show his talent and you crapped all over the thread. Thanks a lot.
I also allowed for him maybe not knowing what he was getting himself into but I had reservations about whether he really was oblivious due to the fact that many teams around the league, as it has come out, were aware of what the Patriots* were up to and Welker is far from being a total idiot.
He wanted the best opportunity for a Championship as does everybody. Whether he was aware before he signed the dotted line or not, he went to a team that was caught cheating. He is now a member of a team that will be known for cheating. You win as a team and you lose as a team.
I pointed out the fact that the Patriots* lost in the last two playoffs and that Welker was one of the keys to their success this season. That doesn't mean the Patriots* were not cheating in those past two seasons. You are incredibly naive to think that the act of cheating will gaurantee a win. You still need to field a quality team and they still need to strap on the pads.
I find it interesting that the ‘72 Dolpins had a very similar receiver, Howard Twilly, as Welker. Interesting that Twilly came out of a similar college system, Tulsa and Glenn Dobbs, as Texas Tech and Mike Leach.
That part at least is true. Shame there's no 'stopper' to compliment that.
Twilly = Twilley
And, by the way, the Patriots* were not one of the best teams in the league before Welker's arrival.
The Patriots won their division in 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006. They won the conference and Super Bowl in 2001, 2003 and 2004. If that doesn't constitute one of the best teams in football, I don't know what does.
I lied though. I did keep reading your post and after doing so I should have stuck with my original thought.
You say you played the game? Was it before helmets?
As has been suggested by more than a few NFL pundits. The 2006 Patriots* would not have beaten the Chargers in this year's AFC Championship game. The 2006 Patriots* would never have gone undefeated this year. They were starting to slide backward. They were not the quality team that they had been in the past. They needed help last year. Keep in mind, this year, despite all the injuries and despite Norv Turner, the Chargers were still in the game against this year's "greatest team ever".
Last year, when things needed fixing, they had to go find some players and they were fortunate enough to get two very good deals on players who were flying somewhat under the radar. Moss was not really "under" the radar but was considered a locker room pariah and not too many teams were willing to take that gamble and Welker was a relative unknown who fit perfectly into their offensive scheme. The difference between starting to slide out of contention last year and their success this year was the acquisition of Welker and Moss.
"The Patriots won their division in 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006."
LOL! But the biggest laugh of the day is that you think that winning the AFC East is an accomplishment?! HAH! That's a given every year, look at the rest of the division. Buffalo, the Jets and Miami... They start the season off with 6 wins in their pocket.
"They won the conference and Super Bowl in 2001, 2003 and 2004. If that doesn't constitute one of the best teams in football, I don't know what does."
Now, also by trying to understand your reasoning, we're obviously taking it to the extreme, but the Patriots*, you say, were still one of the best teams in the NFL in the 2002 season (they didn't even make the playoffs) because they won the Super Bowl in both 2001 and 2003?!
The point being that even the Patriots* know that they can't relax on past success. They have to identify their weaknesses and fix them year in and year out. Last year they were not one of the best teams, this year they are the best so far.
Now, also by trying to understand your reasoning, we're obviously taking it to the extreme, but the Patriots*, you say, were still one of the best teams in the NFL in the 2002 season (they didn't even make the playoffs) because they won the Super Bowl in both 2001 and 2003?!
If we take all of these years into account which you have done, over the course of 6 years the Patriots are one of the best teams in football, if not the best. If as you say my logic is flawed then let's just take 2006. They were in the AFC Championship game and lost. Only 4 out of 31 teams can say they were in a championship game that year. That wouldn't be considered one of the best? SO, if you take all 6 years as a whole, 3 super bowls. If you take just one year, 2006, AFC Championship. I defy you to show me anyone who wouldn't say that is one of the best.
My goodness dude. It's obvious you have an axe to grind with the Patriots* and it seems to be effecting your mental capcatity. I say that assuming before you started putting asterisks by NFL teams you weren't a babbling idiot.
That point, which you apparently missed, was to point out that the Patriots* were not the Super Bowl quality team that they had hoped to be in 2006 so they identified where they needed help and they went out and found that help. Last year's team was missing a cylinder. Welker and Moss were the solution and the Patriots* should get credit for finding a relatively obscure player in Welker and giving him the opportunity to show what he is capable of doing. That is not saying that Welker was not a good player, he is very good. But the Patriots* payed him what he was worth to them at that point in time. Welker, through hard work and determination, proved that he's worth that and a whole lot more.
Unfortunately for him, he's still part of a team that was caught cheating and to have supposed conservatives and people of such supposedly high moral standards on this site railing against the Democrats and the Clintons yet defending Belichick* and his team is pretty sad and quite ironic.
Your point has changed multiple times so how am I supposed to keep track of them all?
And assuming that I am defending Belichick(sp) is your final gaffe. Please show me once where I defended him? I have been debating your comments about Welker selling his soul which turned into semantics about the Patriots and their standing in the NFL which then turned into the Patriots not being the Super Bowl quality team that they had hoped to be in 2006 so they identified where they needed help and they went out and found that help.
So how did Welker sell his soul when he was traded to the Patriots before they were caught cheating? The original point had nothing to do with how good Welker was only that he sold his soul.
Show me once where I assumed that you were defending Belichick.
In addition to being a now big-time football star, Welker is also a grown man and he has the power to make his own decisions both before AND after the scandal was known to the public. He, along with the rest of the team knew what was happening before they were caught. With this particular coach and organization, glory comes at a cost of the collective integrity of the team as well as the individual integrity of each man (selling your soul). You win as a team, you lose as a team. But you are still a member of that team for good or bad.
After they were caught? Not only did he or any other player speak out or distancing themselves from their cheating leader but they, as a team, decided to stick it in everybody's face by rallying around and blindly defending their coach. Sounds like a certain former President and his Democratic Congress. To a man, each individual member of that team lost their integrity and any due respect. Welker decided that his glorious opportunity was much more important to him than his own integrity or the integrity of the game.
Silly me for having thought this statement was directed at me when any intelligent person would have known you were just pontificating. Please pardon my ignorance.
You win. You win. My head hearts from all the "it depends on what the definition of is is" logic here.
I'm done.
You have made several statements, then stated the opposite. You are either embarrassed to have made the statements originally since you were proven to be wrong, or you can't remember what you wrote. Either way, you still made a pathetic attempt to smear the name of Wes Welker and he doesn't deserve what you did on this thread.
Actually Wes totally deserves Fishtale: when idiot’s aren’t on your side, you’ve picked the right side ;)
Read again. I allowed for the possibility that he was not aware of what he was getting into though I, myself, am quite skeptical. Either way you look at it, he, along with the other players on the team, knew what they had when they started training camp and they decided then that cheating and a Super Bowl championship were more important than their integrity and the integrity of the game. And THAT, like it or not, is selling your soul.
I am not at all embarrassed by my position and I firmly stand by my statements. Try and justify it all you want. Bottom line is that you win as a team, you lose as a team and you cheat as a team. You can't pick one or two guys out of the team and say okay, this guy isn't a cheater because he went to my favorite college or he's a hometown hero and he sure had a hard time making it to the big time and besides, he's awfully cute... but his team and his coach sure cheated! Talk about saying one thing and then saying the opposite. You may be able to justify cheating because of some personal feelings toward an individual involved but it's still cheating.
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