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To: CottShop
Despite more andm ore evidence coming in from ID research that thigns are much more irredicubly complex and constructed as a whole rather than piecemeal as Naturalism demands they be

Let's have an example of something that can't be produced by incremental steps.

112 posted on 01/09/2008 1:01:11 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138

[[Let’s have an example of something that can’t be produced by incremental steps]]

Better yet- let’s have an example of how Ecoli flagellum did evolve incrementally- evidences and such- not unsupported hypothesis


114 posted on 01/09/2008 1:05:46 PM PST by CottShop
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To: js1138

examples of irreducible complexities include energy molecules like ATP and GTP

“In addition, a potential ATP candidate molecule would not be selected for by evolution until it was functional and life could not exist without ATP or a similar molecule that would have the same function. ATP is an example of a molecule that displays irreducible complexity which cannot be simplified and still function (Behe, 1996). ATP could have been created only as a unit to function immediately in life and the same is true of the other intricate energy molecules used in life such as GTP.

Although other energy molecules can be used for certain cell functions, none can even come close to satisfactorily replacing all the many functions of ATP. Over 100,000 other detailed molecules like ATP have also been designed to enable humans to live, and all the same problems related to their origin exist for them all. Many macromolecules that have greater detail than ATP exist, as do a few that are less highly organized, and in order for life to exist all of them must work together as a unit.

A crucial difference between prokaryotes and eukaryotes is the means they use to produce ATP. All life produces ATP by three basic chemical methods only: oxidative phosphorylation, photophosphorylation, and substrate-level phosphorylation (Lim, 1998, p. 149). In prokaryotes ATP is produced both in the cell wall and in the cytosol by glycolysis. In eukaryotes most ATP is produced in chloroplasts (for plants), or in mitochondria (for both plants and animals). No means of producing ATP exists that is intermediate between these four basic methods and no transitional forms have ever been found that bridge the gap between these four different forms of ATP production. The machinery required to manufacture ATP is so intricate that viruses are not able to make their own ATP. They require cells to manufacture it and viruses have no source of energy apart from cells.”

http://www.trueorigin.org/atp.asp

More: irreducible complexity is present in the clotting system for blood, the light-detecting system for cells in the retina of the eye, and the repair and transcription systems for DNA.

“Many people don’t realize that even the simplest cell is fantastically complex—even the simplest self-reproducing organism contains encyclopedic quantities of complex, specific information. Mycoplasma genitalium has the smallest known genome of any free-living organism, containing 482 genes comprising 580,000 base pairs[11] (compare 3 billion base pairs in humans, as Teaching about Evolution states on page 42). Of course, these genes are functional only in the presence of pre-existing translational and replicating machinery, a cell membrane, etc. But Mycoplasma can only survive by parasitizing other more complex organisms, which provide many of the nutrients it cannot manufacture for itself. So evolutionists must postulate a more complex first living organism with even more genes.”

http://www.trueorigin.org/design01.asp

Design and IC everywhere- Dismissing a designer in favour of a biologically impossible model or hypothesis is irresponsible science that is based on religious belief and not good sound objective scientific practice.


120 posted on 01/09/2008 1:26:30 PM PST by CottShop
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