Posted on 01/08/2008 4:09:13 PM PST by tantiboh
Mitt Romney is facing an unexpected challenge in Iowa from rival Mike Huckabee, who has enjoyed a groundswell of support from religious voters, particularly evangelical Christians wary of the clean-cut former Massachusetts governor because of his Mormon religion.
The common worry among evangelicals is that if Romney were to capture the White House, his presidency would give legitimacy to a religion they believe is a cult. Since the LDS church places heavy emphasis on proselytizing -- there are 53,000 LDS missionaries worldwide -- many mainstream Christians are afraid that Mormon recruiting efforts would increase and that LDS membership rolls would swell.
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THE ONLY PROBLEM with those fears is that they don't add up. Evangelicals may be surprised to learn that the growth of church membership in Massachusetts slowed substantially during Romney's tenure as governor. In fact, one could make the absurdly simplistic argument that Romney was bad for Mormonism.
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ONE WAY TO GAUGE what might happen under a President Romney would be to look at what happened during the period of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games. Held in Salt Lake City, they were dubbed the "Mormon Olympics."
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Despite all the increased attention, worldwide the Church grew only slightly, and in fact in the year leading up to the games the total number of congregations fell. Overall, from 2000 to 2004, there was a 10.9 percent increase in memberships and a 3.6 percent increase in congregations.
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The LDS church is likely to continue its current modest-but-impressive growth whether or not Romney wins the White House. Perhaps the only real worry for evangelicals is that, if elected, the former Massachusetts governor will demonstrate to Americans that Mormons don't have horns.
Carrie Sheffield, a member of the LDS Church, is a writer living in Washington, D.C.
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
You are a little late to the party :) Colorcountry used to make a big deal out of the DNA testing. She no longer does, because none of the testing has shown any of them to be descendent's of Joseph Smith :) Given the claims made by you anti Mormon cabal members there should be thousands of little Joseph Smiths running around. Where are they?
Then there is the oft quoted Federal Law against Polygamy that Joseph Smith reportedly violated. Would you care to guess who signed it into law and when? I will give you a hint, Joseph Smith was already dead.
I have another question for you. How many false and misleading claims does it take before you will disbelieve an Author?
LeGrande, I am sure you are familiar with the trials that occured between the RLDS and the LDS.
Not just one or two, but many of Joseph Smith’s wives testified that they were involved in physical relations with the Prophet. I suppose you have some reason for chose to overlook their testimony, but I don’t know what your motive is.
“Because of claims by Reorganized Latter-day Saints that Joseph was not really married polygamously in the full (i.e., sexual) sense of the term, Utah Mormons (including Joseph’s wives) affirmed repeatedly that Joseph had physical sexual relations with his plural wives-despite the Victorian conventions in nineteenth-century American religion which otherwise would have prevented mention of sexual relations in marriage.”
- Faithful Mormon Melissa Lott (Smith Willes) testified that she had been Joseph’s wife “in very deed.” (Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Aug. 1893, Temple Lot case, 98, 105; Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 156.)
- In a court affidavit, faithful Mormon Joseph Noble wrote that Joseph told him he had spent the night with Louisa Beaman. (Temple Lot Case, 427)
- Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she “roomed” with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had “carnal intercourse” with him. (Temple Lot case (complete transcript), 364, 367, 384; see Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 15.)
In total, 13 faithful latter-day saint women who were married to Joseph Smith swore court affidavits that they had sexual relations with him.
- Joseph Smith’s personal secretary records that on May 22nd, 1843, Smith’s first wife Emma found Joseph and Eliza Partridge secluded in an upstairs bedroom at the Smith home. Emma was devastated.
William Clayton’s journal entry for 23 May (see Smith, 105-106)
- Smith’s secretary William Clayton also recorded a visit to young Almera Johnson on May 16, 1843: “Prest. Joseph and I went to B[enjamin] F. Johnsons to sleep.” Johnson himself later noted that on this visit Smith stayed with Almera “as man and wife” and “occupied the same room and bed with my sister, that the previous month he had occupied with the daughter of the late Bishop Partridge as his wife.” Almera Johnson also confirmed her secret marriage to Joseph Smith: “I lived with the prophet Joseph as his wife and he visited me at the home of my brother Benjamin F.” (Zimmerman, I Knew the Prophets, 44. See also “The Origin of Plural Marriage, Joseph F. Smith, Jr., Deseret News Press, page 70-71.)
- Faithful Mormon and Stake President Angus Cannon told Joseph Smith’s son: “Brother Heber C. Kimball, I am informed, asked [Eliza R. Snow] the question if she was not a virgin although married to Joseph Smith and afterwards to Brigham Young, when she replied in a private gathering, “I thought you knew Joseph Smith better than that.”” (Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 23, LDS archives.)
Typical, you skip the post where the actual testing is being conducted. 8 initially identified - only 2 proved not related, 2 died as infants, 4 still being processed. So the claim that they have been 'ruled out' is not valid. Mormon authors attesting that Smith not only married multiple others, claims documented by church records, but were also married to another at the same time. Document to me otherwise (and your 'say-so' isn't adequate) since mormon sources such as the one previously mentioned accept Smith's multiple marriages as fact.
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?This makes no sense in either trinitarian, or in Modalisem for you cannot "forsake" yourself.
Delphi, Was Joseph Smith polygamist?
The federal law signed by Abraham Lincoln in 1862 was enacted based upon and to strenthen “common law” which was a “wider” law of the times. I’m sure you are familiar with common law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law
There were polygamy statutes in place in Illinois, Ohio, and Missouri WHILE Joseph Smith lived and committed polygamy. So while JS may not have violated the “letter” of federal law, he did violate State law, and that makes him a criminal.
Illinois statute:
Sec 121. Bigamy consists in the having of two wives or two husbands at one and the same time, knowing that the former husband or wife is still alive. If any person or persons within this State, being married, or who shall hereafter marry, do at any time marry any person or persons, the former husband or wife being alive, the person so offending shall, on conviction thereof, be punished by a fine, not exceeding one thousand dollars, and imprisoned in the penitentiary, not exceeding two years. It shall not be necessary to prove either of the said marriages by the register or certificate thereof, or other record evidence; but the same may be proved by such evidence as is admissible to prove a marriage in other cases, and when such second marriage shall have taken place without this state, cohabitation in this state after such second marriage shall be deemed the commission of the crime of bigamy, and the trial in such case may take place in the county where such cohabitation shall have occurred.”
Revised Laws of Illinois, 1833, p.198-99
Ping to #2807 and #2808
To LDS posters:
Did Joseph Smith practice polygamy while he was on earth? Please respond.
I should think you would like to agree with, or correct, amend or discount the record that Legrande is portraying, that there is no evidence that Joseph Smith was married to more than one woman, Emma.
Here’s your chance. If you don’t respond can we assume you agree with LeGrande?
I think it’s beyond question that Smith practiced polygamy.
>Here’s your chance. If you don’t respond can we assume you agree with LeGrande?
You can assume what you want. Not sure how failing to answer to your question makes it “fair” to assume that someone agrees with LeGrande. I do not have any idea what you and LeGrande are discussion (other than your demand that we answer your question or be charged with an assumption).
Really. Why not discuss things in a more friendly and open manner? Why must everything from your lips appear to be an attack? You have proven yourself capable of being cordial in private. Why not do so in public?
Thank you tortdog. I am coming to view you as a very honest and open Latter-day-saint.
One of the most pressing problems is immigration.
Right now. That is my concern.
Who is least likely to give away country or in few years is it going to known as USSNA
United Socialist States of North America.
LeGrande, Godzilla
We have an LDS answer in #2812.
LeGrande can we now put your specious claim to bed that JS wasn’t married to anyone but Emma?
>JS wasn’t married to anyone but Emma?
Didn’t read his post, but how do you reconcile all the sealings documented with Smith and other women?
I didn’t mean for it to appear as an attack. LeGrande has posted on several occasions that JS didn’t practice polygamy. (see his post 2705 and 2799)
No LDS answered his claim and so I wondered aloud if since no one refuted LeGrande if you believed as he did.
You take offense easily and I understand it since we are discussing issues so dear to us. I will try to be more sensitive in the future. I’m sorry.
I appreciate the desire to advance cordially.
I long dropped this thread from my review. It seems people argue the same thing over and over again, with a few Antis coming in to spam the thread. Just gets old.
I enjoy a hearty discussion.
You might want to look at this:
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith’s_marriages_to_young_women
It’s a detailed review of the history or Smith’s marriages (i.e., sealings) on record, and what people say about them. I believe it to be a fair analysis of the facts.
I appreciate the link.
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