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To: qam1; InterceptPoint

You are both showing a VERY shallow understanding of Hitler to consider him a Christian. Read a little deeper into his writings, and don’t just cherry pick what fits your preconceived notions.

And qam1, did you not read my post concerning how the Holocaust came about? I specifically stated that it wasn’t primarily made possible by Hitler.

Intercept - the specific horrors mentioned all rose out of secular societies. If you can’t accept that fact, I’ll not chase an irrational argument.


43 posted on 12/30/2007 7:31:31 PM PST by Deut28 (Cursed be he who perverts the justice)
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To: Deut28
Well you have a point about Hitler and the Nazis. It was a bit of a cheap shot and it is certainly not a settled issue either way. But I needed to make a point.

That point is that the very fact that Hitler at least paid lip service to supporting religious beliefs supports my view that it wasn't their secularism that defined the Nazi's philosophy. They were socialists who were hungry for the power to rule all of Europe and the issue of whether or not they were Christians or not just isn't very important in their grand scheme of things.

So once again, Nazism and Communism are not the opposite of religion. Neither really had anything to do with religion except to see it as a competitor for peoples allegiance.

And I do mean to include Communism.

Marx's view of religion (recall his "opium of the people" comment) was that people flock to religious institutions when the Capitalist system forced them into poverty. He believed that his system, by providing for the common man, would relieve the people of the need for religion. I'm sure you will agree that this was naive beyond belief. Certainly his system didn't work and even I don't believe that he had identified the source of religious beliefs in the human species.

But in any case, it was Marx, Lenin and Stalin's belief in the common ownership of property and the value of state planning and not their religious beliefs that defined their conduct and cost millions of people their lives. Once again, defining this as "secular" is just overlooking the real facts of history.

44 posted on 12/31/2007 5:48:17 AM PST by InterceptPoint
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