Unindicted Duke LAX players sue Duke University

abc11 ^ | 12/18/2007 | Locomotive Breath

[xzins]

So xzins probably agrees with John Murtha’s snap assessment that the Marines at Haditha are war criminals. If only they hadn’t had the poor judgment to join the military they wouldn’t have been turned into baby killers.

I have pinged Red Rover, who is the principle organizer of defense for the Haditha Marines and the Iskandariyah Snipers.

I think he'll vouch that I've been one of the most vocal, involved, advocates of our troops from the beginning in the ACTUAL defense of these falsely accused members of our military.

Bigheadfred, uncle of Sgt Evan Vela, one of the falsely accused Iskandariyah snipers will also vouch for my involvement.

You make a mistake when you see someone saying they have no sympathy for these students getting burned by a stripper/ho. Play with fire and you're gonna get burned.

Would you recommend to your son that he have a stripper over tonight? (Or might you think that some of them have some mental problems?)

[Andy from Chapel Hill]

The suit was filed in Federal Court in Greensboro, NC, about an hour west of Durham. The vast majority of people in NC are NOT fans of Duke (HUGH understatement!!!). Only 15% of Duke’s students are from NC.

I grew up in Greensboro and I can safely assert that people in Greensboro see nothing attractive in the rest of Durham. In the black community, Greensboro has NC A&T University which is the arch-rival of Durham’s NC Central University. Both are about 90% black.

Smacking down Duke and Durham would be seen as high entertainment in dear old Greensboring.

FWIW

[Nonstatist]

Play with fire and you're gonna get burned.

None of the three hired the stripper, and two of them were second string sophomores that had nothing whatsoever to do with organizing the party .It was just a Spring Break party at one of the captains houses.

There was no evidence against them except that they were from out of town and were white. This kind of wholesale lynching generally doesent happen anymore, for good reason, but you seem very comfortable with "feeling no sympathy".

My guess is you are a phony self righteous moralist whose principals depend on whether you yourself are at risk (unless youre one of those "chaplains" that cheats on the side). People like you make me nauseous.

[Nonstatist]

Its like going to the scene of a fire and being accused of arson because you happened to be from out of town and nobody likes out-of-towners.

I can't believe some who is a "chaplain" could be such a d*ckhead.

[Locomotive Breath]

Your response shows I hit exactly the target I intended. But, as I expected, you completely fail to understand the parallel situation.

I know plenty of people who consider joining the military to be an immoral act and actively advise their children to not do so because it turns you into a trained killer. If you never train to kill and don’t hang around with killers then you don’t run the risk of having someone for whom you work stab you in the back by charging you with being a war criminal. (Some people consider a so-called man of God putting on a uniform and helping others to kill to be REALLY immoral.)

LET ME BE CLEAR THAT I DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THE SENTIMENTS IN THE PRIOR PARAGRAPH.

Some people consider hiring strippers to be immoral. Some do not. It doesn’t matter. There is no way that hiring a stripper should result in a DA, a Police Department and your own university faculty and administrators going nationwide and condemning you for a horrible crime which never happened for which there never was any evidence.

Some people consider joining the US the military to be immoral. Some do not. It doesn’t matter. There is no way that joining the military should result in a US Senator condemning you as a war criminal for a crime which never happened and when he has absolutely no evidence.

At least in the Haditha case there were dead bodies and how they got that way was at least worth talking about.

In each case, whether it’s the Durham PD and legal system, or whether it’s the Duke administration and faculty or whether it’s Murtha and his ilk, they need to be punished for telling lies about other people solely for political gain.

[STONEWALLS]

.....if they filed in Greensboro that means they’re going to be heard in the NC middle district federal court....it also means that the jury pool will be a lot more diversified than if it was just Durham....this will be very interesting case to follow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._District_Court_for_the_Middle_District_of_North_Carolina.

[nicmarlo]

get em!

[xzins]

I suppose some people don’t listen, and it’s necessary to spell it out.

Do you recommend that your son hire a stripper/ho?

I would think that you would want him not to do so. Why? Because it is a DANGEROUS thing to do. (Notice I did not say “IMMORAL thing to do.”)

Those are “professions” that have a high proportion of drug users, unstable, and criminal women involved. The odds of finding trouble INCREASE.

Let’s consider it a positive correlation: as use of strippers/ho’s increases, the probability of a serious incident also increases.

I am unsympathetic toward these lacrosse players and could care less if they win their law suit. Their willingness to overlook risky behavior brought about this incident.

[Nonstatist]

You got to be the biggest blockhead here. They went to a party where somebody else hired the strippers. Anybody who went to a party where something bad was happening without that person's approval would be doing the same thing, and deserving of bad results, according to your value judgements.

You are either obtuse , or just venal, or both.

[xzins]

I disagree that they just went to a party.

How many watched the show?

[isom35]

and the other so-called dancer appeared to be a she-male. (or is the term she-he?)

[darbymcgill]

Ahah... xoxoxox...

Where have you been hiding? As if we didn't know... some of us have been keeping an eye out for you.... ;)

[Ken H]

Bull_hit!

Pretty foul talk for a man of the cloth.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Cry me a river.

I don't buy that your attitude is because you think they acted stupidly. I think your real issue is immorality. Just my opinion.

[xzins]

Do you recommend that your son hire a stripper/ho?

I would think that you would want him not to do so. Why? Because it is a DANGEROUS thing to do. (Notice I did not say “IMMORAL thing to do.”)

Those are “professions” who have a high proportion of drug users, unstable, and criminal women involved. The odds of finding trouble INCREASES.

Let’s consider it a positive correlation: as use of strippers/ho’s increases, the probability of a serious incident also increases.

I am unsympathetic toward these lacrosse players and could care less if they win their law suit. Their willingness to overlook risky behavior brought about this incident.

[Ken H]

Do you recommend that your son hire a stripper/ho?

No.

(Notice I did not say "IMMORAL thing to do.")

Yes, I know what you didn't say, I just don't buy your explanation that risky behavior is your main concern. Your real issue in the lawsuit discussion is immorality, IMO.

[xzins]

Well, that’s your choice and it’s a free country.

However, the fact that you wouldn’t want your son to hire a stripper is because of the consequences of such behavior.

I’ve always thought that the best morality is firmly grounded in reality. There are biological, social, physical, and psychological realities that, when violated, have harmful consequences.

There is no Christian “sin” that I can think of that isn’t rooted in the violation of reality.

[Locomotive Breath]

You want to play it on a risk assessment basis rather than a morals basis? Fine.

Would you recommend that someone join the Army? The probability of getting shot increases dramatically because you’re forced to associate with crazy people who are willing to shoot you. I’m talking about al Qaeda and the Taliban. But if you’re going to be around things that go boom and if you’re going to hop out of helos then chances are you’re going to get hurt. Better to stay home and be an accountant. I hear those paper cuts are murder.

Although, one unit in nearby Ft. Bragg had a higher casualty rate from motorcycle accidents than the battlefield. Maybe I should avoid the Army because I’ll be forced to associate with testosterone-driven young men who go out and do crazy things and, though peer pressure, I’ll feel like I’ll have to do it too. Try being the Ranger who tells his buddies that you bought a car because it has really good air bags. Maybe their real mistake was joining a college sports team. They should have realized that was a risky thing to do.

You’re making the same old tired “they shoulda’ known argument”. It’s utter crap. By herself, there is absolutely no real risk to having Crystal Mangum do a strip show. The only reasonably anticipated very worst case scenario from hiring a stripper is a little public embarrassment if you get caught and having to run laps ‘til you puke because the coach is pissed.

Here are the really risky people to avoid:

1) The real risk is from a feminist ideologue sexual assault nurse examiner (SANE) who didn’t live up to her professional duties but instead insisted that a woman was raped simply because she said was despite the complete lack of medical evidence.

2) The real risk is from a bad cop who hates Duke students and will break every law in the book to make sure they are falsely prosecuted.

3) The real risk is from a rogue DA who puts personal advancement and a better pension before executing his oath of office to seek justice.

4) The real risk is from a University administration that doesn’t like some of the students they’ve admitted and think it’s their duty to reprogram them using the force of law if necessary.

5) The real risk is from a University faculty with a bunch of Marxists who think that the lacrosse team are a bunch of “perfect offenders” and use their own students to engage in class warfare.

6) The real risk is from the threat of racist Durham mob violence which drove some of the behavior seen in 1-5.

7) The real risk is from a credulous media ready to snap up a story that plays to their own world view with out any regard for finding out what actually happened.

How have you lived your life? Are you posting while hiding under your bed, one handed, because you’re sucking your thumb scared to go out the door?

p.s. My son is an adult and can do as he pleases (and often does).

p.p.s. I expect maybe this guy went to a stripper party too. He should have avoided all risks and he’d be alive today.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=792624&KEY=&DB_OEM_ID=4200&DB_LANG=&IN_SUBSCRIBER_CONTENT=

Former Duke Lacrosse Letterman Jimmy Regan Passes Away

02/11/2007 - Duke Sports Information
DURHAM, N.C. - Army Sgt. James John Regan, a Duke lacrosse letterman from 1999-02, was killed Friday, Feb. 9, 2007, in northern Iraq of wounds suffered when his vehicle was struck by an explosive. Regan was assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment stationed in Fort Benning, Ga. He was 26.

[P-Marlowe]

I'm not saying these kids should not sue or should not receive some kind of compensation for their misery. What I am saying is that the jury should be free to assess their damages after considering the fact that these guys were just plain stupid, they were engaged in nefarious, if not illegal behavior, they basically hired a hooker and whenever you do that you run the risk that if she gets pissed off at you, she can always cry rape.

The trouble they got into was probably not foreseeable, but nevertheless, they should have expected some king of trouble.

[xzins]

As a man with 24+ years of the military under his belt, a combat patch for 2 different expeditions, and a lot of experience in military affairs, I’d say that the choice to serve one’s country involves a level of risk that I was willing to accept, and that I was willing to accept the consequences of.

I do not deny the risk. However, I considered the payoff worth the risk: Patriotism, Support for Nation, retirement, etc.

I never asked the family to SUE the military, the enemy, or anyone else if my accepting that risk turned out negatively.

You’re saying that these lacrosse guys should have been blind to the risk, should have acted absolutely aghast that crazies populate the field of strippers and prostitutes, and that they should be applauded for their suing people who were participants in some of the bad consequences that came their way as a result of taking an unnecessary, ignorant risk.

[Ken H]

Here is a post from sceptical at LieStoppers Forum highlighting some of the details of the lawsuit:

http://z9.invisionfree.com/LieStoppers_Board/index.php?showtopic=5784

Bob Ekstrand, lawyer for Ryan McFadyen, Breck Archer and Matthew Wilson, has produced a 400 page civil suit full of new information.

Here is a top ten list of mine as to revelations-- some minor and some major (e.g. the primary jurisdiction of the Duke Police over crimes committed on property owned by Duke).

10. (para 659-60) After the final results from the SBI came back negative, Mayor Bill Bell advised Mike Nifong on April 10, 2006 not attend the NCCU election forum scheduled for the next day. Nifong promised Bell he would not go. Then, the next morning, Nifong showed up despite his assurances to Bell.

9. (para 558) On the night of April 3, 2006, the day before the photoID session, Crystal Mangum went to the UNC Emergency Department complaining of severe neck pain (10/10 on the pain scale). Yet she was videotaped on the April 4 lineup rolling her neck with ease.

8. (para 632) The law for non-testimonial identification orders requires that all results from tests be supplied in writing to suspects. As of now, Nifong never submitted reports to the plaintiffs (Ryan, Breck, Matt) of the results of their DNA tests and use of their mug shot photographs.

7. (para 504) The defense attorneys for Collin, Reade and Dave polled Durham residents (likely in support of their change of venue motion) and found that 17% of African-Americans eligible to serve as jurors in Durham stated they would vote to convict the defendants even if they had a perfect alibi.

6. (para 385; 398-401; 518) The "false names" theory in the affidavits was fiction made up by Gottlieb and Himan based on the flimsy justification that Dan Flannery used the name Flanagan when he called the escort service and on Ryan using his number 41 in his e-mail.

5. (para 329-30; 334-36) Inv, Jones decided to close the rape investigation, but kept open the possibility that Mangum had stolen Pittman's property. Jones released the case as a property crime investigation. to Gottlieb, who had lobbied aggressively to take on the matter. Otherwise, as an alleged sexual assault, the case should have gone to the Durham PD's Violent Crimes Unit according to Durham PD's standard procedures.

4. (para 651-52) Tara Levicy did not produce significant portions of the SANE report until April 5, 2006, weeks after DUMC turned over Mangum's medical records on March 21. The suit states "Levicy falsified the SANE reports to support her own and the Investigator's fabrications."

3. (para 562-563) During the April 4, 2006 photoID session, Crystal Mangum used details from photos of the party in custody of the Durham PD to describe lacrosse players— details she did not remember in 2 previous ID sessions closer to the party. The suit states "… Mangum was provided the pictures that were in the possession of the Durham Police at some point prior to her April 4th Identification Procedure…"

2. (para 108-165; 185-86) There was a Zero-Tolerance for Duke Students Policy in which Duke students were targeted for charging and arrest for minor infractions such as alcohol possession. The Durham PD and Duke administrators collaborated in abusing their own students by using tactics found unconstitutional even by a Durham judge. (While this was known before, the extent of this abuse was not apparent).

1. (para 86-89; 95-99; 106) The Duke University Police Force is a full-fledged law enforcement agency which has primary jurisdiction over all properties owned or controlled by Duke regardless of their location. Because 610 N. Buchanan was owned by Duke, it was the Duke Police who had jurisdiction over Mangum's charges. "The Duke Police Department had original, primary, and continuing authority to investigate Crystal Mangum's false accusations…"