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To: cogitator; Hunble
"Have you ever had a taste of soda water? If so, why is it "tart"?"

Soda water is a supersaturated solution of CO2 in water. It's pH is 5 something, as is distilled water that's been exposed to the atmosphere. Once the cap's off the soda water it will release CO2 until the equilibrium conc. corresponding to the atmospheric conc. is reached.

"Seawater pH will change less, because of the buffer system. But it will change."

Seawater pH is 8.1+/-0.1, that's good enough. Calling a change within that range acidification for the purposes of justifying "serious problems" for coral is flat out BS. That's the findings of the research, which is mentioned in that paper above, which fails to include mention of the complete local system in fig2.

Once all the components of the system are included, there is no net change in CO32-, because the increase in CO2 causes an increase in dissolution. As I pointed out, the same increase in dissolution occurs locally when alkaline carbonates precipitate to form the corals. IOWs pH does not depend on alkalinity in the real system, it depends on the saturation conc of the alkaline earth components Ca and Mg and all the various dissociation constants.

114 posted on 12/14/2007 9:12:40 PM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets
It's pH is 5 something, as is distilled water that's been exposed to the atmosphere.

Precisely.

Seawater pH is 8.1+/-0.1, that's good enough. Calling a change within that range acidification for the purposes of justifying "serious problems" for coral is flat out BS.

Sorry that you don't get it. A small shift in the pH of seawater means a large shift in the saturation state with respect to calcium carbonate (shifting the equilibrium toward bicarbonate and away from carbonate ion). Reducing the seawater concentration of carbonate ion makes calcification a much more difficult physiological process for the organisms to accomplish.

Not BS. Basic marine chemistry.

Once all the components of the system are included, there is no net change in CO32-, because the increase in CO2 causes an increase in dissolution.

Not in surface waters. Surface seawater is currently 6x supersaturated with respect to CaCO3. Acidification drastically lowers the supersaturation state, making calcification much more difficult, without causing any significant dissolution aspects to kick in. There might be a few places where the surface waters actually bedome undersaturated with respect to aragonite, which will be tough on the aragonitic species. Deep-sea dissolution won't have an immediate effect; wait a couple thousand years maybe, and it might.

IOWs pH does not depend on alkalinity in the real system, it depends on the saturation conc of the alkaline earth components Ca and Mg and all the various dissociation constants.

Ca and Mg don't vary nearly as much as carbonate ion.

126 posted on 12/15/2007 8:52:55 PM PST by cogitator
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