Posted on 12/12/2007 6:04:34 AM PST by libstripper
WASHINGTON - Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee, an ordained Southern Baptist minister, asks in an upcoming article, "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?"
The article, to be published in Sunday's New York Times Magazine, says Huckabee asked the question after saying he believes Mormonism is a religion but doesn't know much about it. His rival Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, is a member of the Mormon church, which is known officially as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The authoritative Encyclopedia of Mormonism, published in 1992, does not refer to Jesus and Satan as brothers. It speaks of Jesus as the son of God and of Satan as a fallen angel, which is a Biblical account.
A spokeswoman for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said Huckabee's question is usually raised by those who wish to smear the Mormon faith rather than clarify doctrine.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
What Huck said seems to be true according to the Mormon website.”
________________________
It is true.
I think the point is that orthodox Christian belief holds that Jesus was begotten, uncreated, not made.
Every other being, man and angels (and Satan) included, is different—all created beings.
According to orthodox Christian doctrine.
You still didn't answer my question. Why is it dishonest to ask for clarification when Mormon sources provide inconsistent information?
Well, it seems there are 2 issues here...
1.) The “why” as to why Huck even said it in the first place.
Of course - he didn’t bring it up. He was asked another baiting question by a lefty reporter who was trying to start the flame war to begin with.
2)Then there is the real religious disagreement.
Jesus is not the “brother” of Christ. Jesus is God.
Lucifer is a created being. Jesus, as God, is an infinite being, uncreated.
This is biblical. This is why we baptize in the “name” (one name) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
We do not baptize in the “names” of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
One “name” (one Goed) 3 persons in the Godhead - the trinity.
So what this goes back to is the debate we’ve been encountering concerning the mormons’ wish to be viewed as a mainstream “christian” religion, even though they do not share the mainstrean view of God, Jesus, and the Trinity.
I'm not optimistic about this -- lobbying the government to pass a law against vice is easier than persuading people to turn away from vice, just as lobbying the government to send you a check is easier than working for a living, and the former is as seductive (and corrupting) as the latter.
Well said. I would have said it I guess less well and have before on FR. That is, social cons have had 8 years of running the coalition under Bush and have mucked it up big time. Its time for them to let fiscal and small government conservatives run things for a while. We will support their agendas as it fits within a limited government, fiscally responsible framework.
I never said I believed Orthodoxy. These are theological disagreements. From our point of view, there was no need for a restoration had Orthodoxy been correct. You can embrace Orthodoxy and I can embrace the Restoration, hopefully, we can still work together to preserve the whats left of the country.
Actually, Duncan Hunter is my ideal guy, but I would vote for Romney if I can’t jump start Hunter. I don’t think I live any different than I would have had I stayed in Methodism, but I do get accused of crazy things. I still have amazing Methodist and Catholic friends. Most enjoy understanding differences in theology, but I think this gets old on a political forum.
What else is new?????????? I know we disagree..So what?
As Texas Songwriter pointed out, its about honesty. If the Mormon church and their supporters would stop trying to cover their tracks and trying to make themselves out as just another Christian denomination, I would have no problem with you, or them. Mormonism is NOT Christianity. Your printed church doctrines make that abundantly clear. Re-read post #183. The "Jesus" Mormons preach is not the Jesus of the New Testament. Your church clearly preaches "another gospel." Mitt Romney is not some newbie dolt, that doesn't know the Mormon church's teaching on who they believe Jesus to be. When he says he believes in the same Jesus as the biblical Jesus he is being dishonest and deceptive in my book. Why?...because he is courting favor with evangelical Christian voters who might not know the truth of the matter. Court them on conservative issues and your position on them, NOT that you believe in the same biblical Jesus!
You are not understanding the context of these comments.
What if Rudy G. had said, "Well, don't Protestants believe that Satan was kicked out of heaven by God?" You might consider those beliefs as "weird."
But "weirdness" isn't the issue. The issue is that if Rudy raised the question because he thought that talk of a real personal Satan was "weird" I as a Protestant wouldn't be offended or insulted by that.
The difference is that while if others raise questions about our beliefs, as long as they describe them accurately (for example by citing our authorities), then what's there to be offended about? Yet when we cite LDS authorities about what they believe, others think that's "offensive" and sometimes LDS take offense as well.
Well, if you are firmly agnostic, you obviously don't buy into either a god or an angel-gone astray named Satan.
Why not? Why be upset over official doctrine in the LDS???? Maybe Huckabee is merely pointing out the difference to counter the deception Romney and the LDS have been deliberately engaging in?
Thanks for posting the excerpt - I would think folks would want to hear from the primary source, rather than fly off the handle about Huck (and I don't even like Huck much).
So what?
I guess I got a chuckle this morning watching GMA paint Huck as a bigot.
They claimed what he said is not true.
But it is true.
granted - the mormons will feel it is not given the proper context as you’ve pointed out - but what is wrong with mormons saying that?
why can’t the mormons say what you said?
Instead they pretend he said something untrue and bigotted.
EXACTLY! That’s my beef - this deliberate campaign of deception and if you point it out you’re suddenly a bigot.
What is the “Restoration?” I’m assuming that is a Mormon term that I’m unfamiliar with.
Of course it is OK if you don’t believe orthodox Christianity, but the point is—there is orthodox Christianity, which both Catholics and Protestants believe, and then there is unorthodox Christianity, which I guess Mormons and other quasi-Christian sects/cults believe.
So is unorthodox Christinity to be considered Christianity? It cannot, because then it is not Christianity at all, but something perhaps close but altogether different.
How was the question disrespectful other than being very awkward for Romney to answer? As was pointed out in post 154, the LDS spokeswoman doesn't seem to know what Mormon doctrine actually holds.
If Romney didn't want to deal with his Mormonism, perhaps he shouldn't have given the "Mormon" speech last week. After the initial gushing over the speech, some more sober-minded political analysts brought up a very good point in saying that Romney made a mistake. By bringing up the topic of Mormonism himself, Romney can't credibly sidestep questions about it. This is probably just the first of many such questions that will be raised.
I believe that the guy that walked around Jerusalem about 2000 years ago was the Savior. He said his name was Jesus. I think it is the same one mentioned in the NT. Oh, I also believe he was the Son of God, just like he said. Where exactly is the other NT one you mention that is more correct?
Agree. Voters may consider it relevant or irrelevant, but it is not unfair.
Imagine if Candidate X were a Scientologist, would voters consider his opinion on Lord Xenu relevant? It calls the candidates judgment into question.
By the same token, an atheist may feel a Christian’s belief in resurrection as making the candidate inappropriate for office.
That’s not a religious test in violation of the Constitution, it is freedom of speech and freedom of religion.
So the point is, if a voter thinks someone is a member of a cult, it becomes fair game.
This doesn’t mean that an evangelical could not or should not vote for a Mormon, but it is not bigotry to take that stand. A Mormon could do the same for a Protestant.
Like it or not, that is reality
Since the Trinity is a foundational truth of Catholic and Protestant doctrine, then you shouldn't be offended when Mormons aren't considered Christians.
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