Well, this thread is starting to die out, so your audience might be kinda small. But I'll hang around to read it, and comment on it, if you decide to post.
In the end, I'm still voting for Brain Chemistry, over Mama and Christian acquaintances, as bearing the primary responsibility. Unless you find something in his writings that looks sufficiently convincing.
But ultimately, at the age of 24, the responsibility was his.
Sorry, I posted what I’d found without my comments but had forgotten that not all the profanity had been sanitized so had to ask the mod to pull the post.
Will try again tomorrow, probably.
Here it is again. I think I’ve searched/replaced all the profanity.
SHOOTER’S WRITINGS and Quix’s commentary:
FROM
“YOUR Columbine”
Gunman wrote of rejection as reason for revenge
By Jeremy P. Meyer, David Migoya and Christopher N. Osher
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 12/12/2007 10:08:42 AM MST
DyingChild_65 did not feel loved. He wrote that he was angered by being rejected by various groups over the years.
“All I found in christianity was hate, abuse (sexual, physical, psychological, and emotional), hypocrisy, and lies,” writes the poster
In another posting, Murray wrote of a crushing depression that would not respond to intensive therapy or medication.
From:
http://p223.ezboard.com/fexpentecostalforumsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=1828.topic&index=8
But why care about a world that doesn’t care about me anyways? And why go on living in a world that doesn’t want me?
Caring never felt so lame inside. There’s just no answers.
Guess what? Believe it or not.....I’VE TRIED ALL THAT
People then usually assume that I only tried prozac(or some other drug) for two days and got upset that it didn’t “work” and they say “oh well, you need to give it more than a couple of days to work”....I don’t know how 8 months is only a few days...
The response so far is always the same. The person who claimed to have it so much worse than me, is suddenly shaken, and *tranced* out and given a glimpse of The Nightmare that me and my friends have grown up in. This person who first said “oh no honey, not to discount what you’re going through but I’m dealing with some dark depressing things a young person like you doesn’t understand” is now telling me in a quivering voice....”uh.....that’s......pretty dark writing.....and creative too...uh.....have you thought of counsling?” I said “well yeah, didn’t really change anything”
Sorry but this isn’t some pity story of where someone got touched in the wrong place once or twice or where some girl got raped only twice....this is The Nightmare that just goes on and on and me some of my church friends just cannot even fully remember what all happened, much less understand why......
Now on my dark ledge I am falling further
Where are my friends? Someone grasp me
But no one reaches for I have nothing left to give them
My use for them is gone and so is their respect for me
Hitting a deeper level I crash hard
My anger screams, sorrow and hate contorting together
In a fit my temper explodes, tearing my hair, punching my face
Ripping my skin to release it from within
Screams of sorrow increasing my hate
Sentences flash through my mind of all that they said
Of those I regard that hurt me
Emptying my soul, devouring my will
I’m alone and always will be
I’ve known no one who hasn’t hurt me and often with intent
I walk through crowded streets of faceless people
Their whispers haunting me
Trapped in a void with myself who’s not me
My knowledge and power are all that I own
My compassion is destroyed, my hate free to explode
Now I will always destroy those who try to hurt me
“I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. Never inviting me to all your fun parties, never inviting me to hang out. And no, don’t say, ‘Well, that’s your fault’ because it isn’t. You people had my phone number, and I asked and all, but no no no no no. Don’t let the weird kid come along.”
“All I found in christianity was hate, abuse (sexual, physical, psychological, and emotional), hypocrisy, and lies,” writes the poster, who adds that he is one of the “nobodies” “who just wants to be loved and accepted somewhere. I just want to be one of the somebodies.”
“This is the Nightmare that just goes on and on “
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From:
I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don’t @#%$ say, “well thats your fault” because it isnt, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. no no no dont let the weird looking KID come along, ohh @#%$ nooo.
[bleep]it, DEAD PEOPLE DON’T ARGUE! My belief is that if I say something, it goes. I am the law. If you don’t like it, you die. If I don’t like you or I don’t like what you want me to do, then you die. If I do something incorrect, oh @#%$ well, you die. Dead people can’t do many things, like argue, whine, @#%$, complain, name, rat out, criticize, or even @#%
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From:
(12/9/07 4:07 am)
Never said I wanted to be god’s disciple.....
God Hates Us All; God Hates Us All
He [freakin]’ hates me
Pessimist, Terrorist targeting the next mark
Global chaos feeding on hysteria
Cut throat, slit your wrist, shoot you in the back fair game
Drug abuse, self abuse searching for the next high
Sounds a lot like hell is spreading all the time
I’m waiting for the day the whole world @#%$ dies
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From:
Ricky Rodriguez’ experience of growing up in the Nightmare..
[Qx: The paragraph above the following series of paragraphs was in quotes while those following were not. So, it’s not clear whether the following paragraphs are Ricky’s or Murray’s. In any case, I consider them functionally, emotionally, experiencially to be equal to Murray’s experiences—I believe sufficiently in reality to be a serious part of the explanation for the mental emotional spaces he lived in most of the time]
So now this is interesting because, um, I don’t think most fam- other Family kids- can relate to this, because yeah, they were abused. But one thing I don’t think they were that much is secluded. And that really can @#%$ you over, because if you don’t have that, um, mirror, if you will, of other kids your own age, um, even kids older than you, you know, older siblings, whatever, friends, then uh, it really [freaks] ya up.
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From:
G:\Documents\HANDOUTS\C\TRAUMATIC CHRISTIAN RELATED TRAGEDIES YWAM ETC\Re another sleepless night.mht
CLEARLY MURRAY’S OWN WORDS
I know about the many sleepless nights and being unable to get anyone who will even just listen to me. I’ve tried telling christians from other denominations and they just look at me with this stare not having any clue the kind of darkness and despair I’ve had to go through. I’ve tried to find companionship with sexual abuse survivors only to have them be freaked out about the insane testimony of what I’ve been through.
I’ve already talked with many hard-core fundamentalist christian apologists and pastors and they’re all out of answers for me. The best they can come up with is “uh...well....I guess all you can do is trust God and hope you’ve followed the right version of christianity....”
Then there’s the christian family. They all believe I’m of “the devil” and believe that they’ve been the perfect “Godly holy spirit filled prophetic” family and that I’m some ungrateful son-of-a-@#%$ who “is just evil because he just wants to do his own thing.......”
NO, I’m just @#%$ tired of being abused, of never being allowed to be myself, of always having a double-standard applied. Fed up with the most evil religion on earth known as Christianity. Tired of always being the reject amongst the christian youth and everyone telling me to “just get over the depression or get on pills, we don’t have time for this....”
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From:
G:\Documents\HANDOUTS\C\TRAUMATIC CHRISTIAN RELATED TRAGEDIES YWAM ETC\Re My YWAM Horror Story.mht
I did my DTS at YWAM Denver and Dale Lambert was my DTS school leader. I witnessed all kinds of insanity. Men would be making out with other men in the hallways, listening to all kinds of “metal music”(non-christian), smoke pot with each other while off base, there were rumors of sexual activity, both hetero and homosexual.
1 person did get sent home for making an amateur sex video of homosexual nature....6 or 7 people were involved but only that one person got sent home. I know 3 or 4 others were sent home simply for smoking a legal nicotine cigarette. A few people got “talks”(slaps on the wrist) about their openly homosexual behaviour in front of everyone. They all went on outreach
christianity. If you ask questions and want to understand things and/or desire a real and deep spirituality, or if you’re just not popular...well.......you are considered as one of the horrible people and are either going to be abused or kicked out by “holy spirit love filled” christians. it’s all about......
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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From:
G:\Documents\HANDOUTS\C\TRAUMATIC CHRISTIAN RELATED TRAGEDIES YWAM ETC\The Denver Post - YOUR Columbine.mht
Among the online writings purported to be from Matthew J. Murray:
Murray wrote of finding solace in cutting himself, describing it as “a beautiful work of art shaded in crimson sprinkled with tears as you descend into the darkness of loneliness (sic) and despair drowning and sinking with no one around, even when you’re doing it with your friends.”
“All I found in christianity was hate, abuse (sexual, physical, psychological, and emotional), hypocrisy, and lies,” writes the poster, who adds that he is one of the “nobodies” “who just wants to be loved and accepted somewhere. I just want to be one of the somebodies.”
“This is the Nightmare that just goes on and on “
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From:
http://www.denverpost.com:80/ci_7697827
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
The ultra-religious home-school curriculum that Matthew Murray ranted about in Web postings before he opened fire at two Christian centers forbids dating, rock music and “wrong clothes.” It advises young men and women to live at home until their parents release them and counsels parents to choose marriage partners for their offspring.
The curriculum Murray decried in his postings was developed by evangelist Bill Gothard as part of The Institute in Basic Life Principles. The Bible-based curriculum is contained in “Wisdom Booklets” — 3,000 pages of instruction that “views academic subjects through the grid of Scripture,” according to the institute’s website.
Murray mentions Gothard by name in a later post. “Me, I remember the beatings and the fighting and yelling and insane rules and all the Bill Gothard (expletive) and then trancing out . (expletive) . I’m still tranced out.”
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FROM:
G:\Documents\HANDOUTS\C\TRAUMATIC CHRISTIAN RELATED TRAGEDIES YWAM ETC\Drowning in despair.mht
I DON’T KNOW if these are his original words or not. I’m fairly confident he felt every word and phrase rather keenly as though they were his own. My best bet reading these lines is that they are his original words. They just sound like him.
Drowning in despair
Walking down these hallways
Of mirrors and sadness seeing myself
Crying all alone as everyone takes their turn
Raping all that I am
Cutting myself killing this pain
Someone help me please
I can’t get out and I am slowly dying
Walking down these hallways
Of mirrors and sadness seeing myself
Crying all alone as everyone takes their turn
Raping all that I am
Cutting myself killing this pain
Someone help me please
I can’t get out and I am slowly dying
Come and sing with me
This beautiful song of sadness and misery
Cutting ourselves
Crying awash in crimson
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From:
denver and the west
“YOUR Columbine”
Gunman wrote of rejection as reason for revenge
By Jeremy P. Meyer, David Migoya and Christopher N. Osher
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 12/12/2007 10:08:42 AM MST
“All I found in christianity was hate, abuse (sexual, physical, psychological, and emotional), hypocrisy, and lies,” writes the poster
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From:
http://www.truecrimeweblog.com/
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On December 1, 2007, Murray made a post titled, “Insane things we went through in Christian homeschool.” Murray wrote:
I remember the beatings and the fighting and yelling and insane rules and all the Bill Gothard bull**** and then trancing out...sh**......I’m still tranced out. I remember how it was like every day was Mission Impossible trying to keep the rules or not get caught and just....survive every single f***ing day. My mother’s a f***ing psycho too, her and her whole church and christian family.
The problem right now is the fact that it appears that they are always going to pursue me throughout life(and they have said so), as I am supposedly the “chosen one.” As far as I can tell they did not treat the other youth the same way.
Well, I don’t want to be their “chosen one” at all. I just wish I could find some way to wake up from this nightmare.
stuff. I was forced to memorize bible verses 5 days a week growing up 11 years in christian homeschool. I was involved with and taught the ideas of C. Peter Wagner, Mike Bickle, Bill Gothard, and many others. I went to all kinds of fundamentalist/pentecostal/evangelical bible studies, conferences, prayer meetings, and even a missionary school/ministry called Youth With A Mission Denver. Of course, LOTS of hypocrisy and NO REAL love to be found at YWAM Denver. I know the bible better than most christian pastors. Oh, and I’ve already been baptised, received “the baptism of the holy spirit”, spoke in tongues and all those other games christians love to play. I’ve lived the christian life, did all the faith stuff, confessions of faith, the baptism stuff, the prayer stuff, and all the rule stuff. If I’m not changed, well, it aint my fault. I did my part of the deal. Christians thought they could get away with abusing me and others, they thought the Truth and Light would never be found out. They were wrong.
. You need to
face the fact that this comes as a result of
YOUR CHOICES. Parents, pastors, christians, YOU
[FREAKED] UP. You have taught these kids to be
gears and sheep. To think and act like those
who came before them, to not accept what is
different. YOU ARE IN THE WRONG. I may have
taken their lives and my own- but it was
your doing. Teachers, Parents, LET THIS
MASSACARE BE ON YOUR SHOULDERS UNTIL THE DAY
YOU DIE. Am I insane? Maybe. Is it my fault?
No. I did not choose this life, but I have
indeed chosen to exit it. You may think the
horror ends with the bullet in my head- but
you wouldn’t be so lucky.
Right now I’m trying to get laid and to finish up some sh**. Why the
F*** can’t I get any? I mean, I’m nice and considerate and all that
s***, but nooooo.... it’s not my fault I was sheltered my whole life
and wasn’t given a f****** clue about sex and dating
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From:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1845354
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1 person did get sent home for making an amateur sex video of homosexual nature....6 or 7 people were involved but only that one person got sent home. I know 3 or 4 others were sent home simply for smoking a legal nicotine cigarette. A few people got “talks”(slaps on the wrist) about their openly homosexual behaviour in front of everyone. They all went on outreach
ONE SITE BANNED HIS ACCOUNT ENTIRELY. It may be that what I read is on that site. It was 3-5 lines about mother in his bedroom IIRC, with very clear multiple hints that the physical activities were not overwhelmingly kosher. And there was a phrase about her leaving the door open as she left that was mystifyingly significant to him for some reason.
If anyone finds those few lines, please let me know. My impression reading the lines 5-6 times was that he was deadly serious but almost didn’t really want to go there publically—maybe at all—yet it was clearly very troubling to him.
From:
http://p223.ezboard.com/fexpentecostalforumsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=1899.topic&index=18
X - “Touch not mine annointed”
Even though hypocrisy was NOT to be questioned, the fact is many of the church pastors, elders, and deacons lived hypocritical lives. I do know that many of their children were invovled in criminal activities of one sort or another while those parents who dared to let their kids read Harry Potter, or play pokemon or listen to non-christian music were harassed and judged.
X - Child abuse, mental, physical, sexual, emotional, and psychiatric(misusing prescription psychotropic drugs AGAINST church members) I still do not understand the full reasoning and story behind this
X - Covering up and/or denying child abuse
It was copmletely forbidden to talk about these things, to bring accusations, and to question it. Everything was done “in the name of Jesus.” Everyone would copmletely ignore the accusations and instead say “everyone here loves you and everyone loves Jesus.” Well that’s @#%$ great....but why didn’t anyone EVER investigate or at *least* ask questions like any REAL children’s ministry or youth program would?! I remember one time overhearing about few talks that were about how some “rebellious youth were bringing false accusations to attack the church.” Interesting........ members of New Life Church and many christians tried to use the VERY SAME excuses..........
I have received word this year(2007) that at least one youth worker who worked with a christian summer camp that my church ran WAS found out. Another youth pastor at a church associated with my ex-church WAS convicted of sexual assault on a minor and I heard he we to REAL jail(not spirit prophecy jail) in January 2007. And that WAS in the local newspaper, not hearsay from some “rebellious youth.”
. . .
This did not apply to the pastor’s family however as they went OVERBOARD with television, movies and everything else. There were very few “R” and PG-13 movies they had not seen and the TV was on in that house all the friggen time. “Non-christian music” was completely forbidden for us, but NOT for the pastor’s family. We were also taught that “satanists have put backmasking lyrics in all the non-christian music to cause kids to shoot up schools” and that Christian Contemporary Music had “satanic beats” in it and was NOT of God(none of that applied to the pastor’s family though.)
. . . .
X - Dating Forbidden
We were told “just believe that Jesus will send you the ‘right one’ for you to help you carry out the special plan God has called you to.” Sex education was NOT taught anywhere at all. I didn’t even find out what sex really was until age 19. The pastor’s kids however were having sex well before age 18. As far as what I know, the pastor’s oldest daughter got pregnant and his oldest son got a girl pregnant after age 18.
Dating was NOT allowed for us however and we were taught that “dating is not in the bible, God’s way is for the parents to choose the girl/guy and then for courtship to be practiced.”
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From:
http://www.techimo.com/forum/t195300.html
I still remember how we were told that “The Simpsons” was a very evil and Satanic TV show with the intent of causing people to leave Christianity (as if that’s a bad thing). As a teenager my mother had the TV tuner removed by a TV technician so that it could only receive from the AV inputs, meaning, could only watch VHS and DVDs. I remember me and the other church youth would go over to the Senior pastor’s house and ask to watch the very same movie that his 10 year old son or daughter had told us they’d watch and be told “sorry guys, that’s rated ‘R,’ it’s not Godly.” Of course we’d ask “but then why do you have it?” Sometimes he’d lie, other times he’d just say “sorry…you can’t.”
. . .
Music was VERY restricted of course. We got all kinds of lectures on how Satanist covens had some kind of backmasking technology and were partnered with all the artists, including Iron Maiden, Motley Crue, Britney Spears, Madonna and N’sync. Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith were said be in on it too…even though the “elite” members of the church listened to them. Growing up, I was restricted to listening to….sermons on the radio or through tapes.
. . .
Well, I got all fed up with the insanity, hypocrisy, conflicting doctrines, the and lack of absolute answers in regards to “salvation,” heaven and hell and other theological issues, the child abuse, brainwashing, lies, gossip, scandals, threats and fear mongering. I got tired of always hearing “oooohh, you’re saved by grace, not by works!” “Everybody loves you! Jesus loves you!” only to hear about how I was going to hell for watching “The simpsons” or could lose my salvation and could never be certain if 30 years from now I might lose it due to some odd sin and die in an accident and end up in this eternal hell preached to us day and night.
. . .
I remember getting thrown around the room and hit while getting interrogated about whether or not I had video games and DVDs. Then there were the constant interrogations by the church pastors. @#%$ hypocrites.
. . .
And when she confiscated something, she’d almost never tell me. She’d always pretend like she had no idea what I was talking about, until I had her cornered with evidence....so much for “Liars go to the lake of fire.”
. . .
Sorry but this isn’t some pity story of where someone got touched in the wrong place once or twice or where some girl got raped only twice....this is The Nightmare that just goes on and on and me some of my church friends just cannot even fully remember what all happened, much less understand why......
. . . .
Me, I remember the beatings and the fighting and yelling and insane rules and all the Bill Gothard bull**** and then trancing out...sh**......I’m still tranced out. I remember how it was like every day was Mission Impossible trying to keep the rules or not get caught and just....survive every single f***ing day. My mother’s a f***ing psycho too, her and her whole church and christian family.
. . .
I’m not getting any younger and it’s time for the abuse to stop. Just because I’m not one of the “Beautiful People,” just because other people don’t understand or because I’m not “popular” does not mean I need to take any more s*** from anyone.
. . .
FROM
home. My mother although used psychotropic drugs because she somehow thought it would make it easier to control me(I’ve never been diagnosed with any mental illness either). Pastors would always come and interrogate me over video games or TV watching or other things. There were NO FRIENDS outside the church and family and even then only family members who were in the church. You could not trust anyone at all because anyone might be a spy.
. . .
What I found were all these other rules I realized I could never live up to, yet, the man seemed to have a biblical basis for everything. In Februrary 2001 at age 17 I plunged into a dark suicidal depression all because I thought I had lost my “salvation” and somehow couldn’t live up to the rules. Every single hour of every single day, up until October 2001 I thought about ways of suicide and hating myself for not being worthy enough and failing God. I felt like there was no reason to live because I had lost my salvation and could never live up to the rules. In May of 2001, I told my parents I was depressed and they put me on 2 anti-depress ants(in addition to the other crap pills they had me on to try to brainwash me).
None of that touched this depression at all. Everyone prayed, they laid hands on me, spoke in tongues over me, I sought out every kind of christian spiritual help I knew of in charismatic christianity . I through away video games, a few movies, anything that could possibly be “bringing demons” that would cause me to lose God’s favour and make me depressed. I never told my parents I was suicidal however, that would have gotten me in big trouble, I just told them I was depressed.
. . . .
At age 18, in 2002, I went to Youth With A Mission to do their “DTS” program which lasts a total of 5 months, the last two months you go on outreach. On the YWAM base several of the other young men smoked pot, looked at porn, listened to heavy metal, AND were involved in homosexual activities. 6 of the guys made a homosexual porn videotape together on the YWAM Denver campus but only one got kicked out because his face was on the video
. . .
At the conference I got into a debate with two prayer team staff members. These two staff members watched me throughout the conference to find out who I was with. They found my mother and told her this story that went something along the lines of I “wasn’t walking with the lord and could be planning violence.” Two weeks later my mother brought over one of the pastors to search my room for “anything evil”(which included my Xbox video game and DVD collection). I tried moving all the video games, DVDs, and a few non-christia n books over to a friends house, but that woman was a church member. My mother and the church leadership called that woman, got into her house and basically destroyed at *least* $900 worth of property. I wasn’t involved in anything like drugs or anything like that. I just had video games, some books about other religions, DVDs and such.
After that incident my mother searched my room for the next 3 months EVERY SINGLE DAY. After that I decided it was over, that I had had it with christianity
. . .
I had already told my mother to lay off or she’d regret it. After that incident in 2004 I immediately went into all of Marilyn Manson’s thinking, ideas and music, believe it or not
. . . .
. A LOT went on up until age 18, and then a lot happened at age 19(2003) to now.
[an editor’s comments at the above link: What is clear is his growing resentments and his determinatio n to effect a change. I contend his rejection of his religious ideology unfortunatel y didn’t include the ability to separate his newly chosen activities (drinking, sex, etc) from the construct of sin which had been ingrained in his psyche. While choosing to rebel, it is obvious he still loathes his actions though sees them as equal or superior to the hypocrisy and abuse he believes he experienced while attempting to live his faith.]