How America Lost the War on Drugs

Rolling Stone ^ | Novermber 27th, 2007 | Ben Wallace-Wells

[TKDietz]

This wasn’t really a typo, but where I said, “There is no penalty for being too hard on people,” I should have said, “There isn’t really any penalty for wasting our limited prison bed space...”

[TKDietz]

“Adolescent crime then was rampant as the kids sought items to exchange for marijuana.”

I call b.s. on that one. I’ve been a criminal defense attorney for a lot of years now and I’ve handled thousands of criminal cases including an awful lot of juvenile cases. I see a lot of cases where people are stealing to buy drugs like meth or opiates, but pot? Come on. Try that crap one somebody else. I’m not saying no one has ever stolen to buy pot, but if they’ll steal to by pot they’d steal to buy anything. They’re just regular old thieves. If these kids were stealing to by drugs odds are it was the hard stuff, opiates, speed, cocaine, the expensive stuff that is super addictive. Theft by adolescents to buy pot was “rampant?” Bull.

As for loosening up again in Spain, that’s not what happened. The drug possession laws tightened slightly in the early 1990’s in Spain. Simple possession or use did not become a crime, but doing it in public did become a civil violation, that’s it. Like a lot of European countries, they treat it more as a health issue than a criminal issue. I do not believe the laws loosened in Spain since the changes in 1992. They were already pretty darned loose. It wasn’t and still isn’t a crime there to possess a personal use amount of any drug, even drugs like heroin. If crime dropped like you said it did, it wasn’t because they “recriminalized” drugs. They didn’t recriminalize drugs. Check your facts.

[SatinDoll]

“...Removing drugs from the criminal realm means that our enemies could no longer make money off of them,...”

That’s is like saying “abolish all traffic laws and traffic deaths will decline”.

I strongly suspect that it won’t work. Addictive drugs aren’t easy to discontinue whereas with alcohol or chocolate many if not most people find it is possible to have just one and walk away.

Substance abuse often runs in families. People who are bipolar, or who have certain personality disorders, are more subject to substance abuse including alcohol and various drugs. If a person knows family history and can control the cravings, that’s cool. Unfortunately many cannot.

Occasional use of tobacco and alcohol will not kill you. It has not been unknown for a first time user of cocaine or heroin to die. Marijuana is known as a gateway drug - it is an introduction to getting high. Prolonged regular use can cause brain damage. Drinking a glass of red wine at dinner won’t.

You sound sincere and talk like a Libertarian. The doctrine is attractive but the laws we have are to protect people from each other AND from our own stupidity. It is a precarious balance at best and it’s just a damn shame most people aren’t better, but philosophers have been moaning about for a long, long time.

[antinomian]

Please - I know people that stop when applying for a job and go right back to recreational use once they have a job.
No one at their place of employment has a clue that they use at all.

Sure. But I remember when people talked about recreational drug use openly, even at work. For a time it was normal in our culture and drug testing has changed that.

[Brucifer]

“The fact that they want to stay stoned, or slowly kill themselves with heroin or cocaine or meth, might on the surface seem to be a private choice.”

The problem is quantity. If they get all they want for cheap they will be dead very quickly. End of problem.

[KoRn]

ping

[Ken H]

I suggest leaving the whole heroin post the same except talk about the USA rather than the Netherlands.

US figure:

There were an estimated 980,000 hardcore heroin addicts in the United States in 1999, 50 percent more than the estimated 630,000 hardcore addicts in 1992.

--www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs07/794/heroin.htm

Using a population of 280,000,000, that works out to about a 0.35% addiction rate. That compares to a 0.3% rate for Singapore - which only counted addicts under treatment. My guess is that Singapore's true addiction rate would be higher than the US. Here's an interesting comparison of murder rates:

Dutch murder rate at 15-year low   

There were 201 murders committed nationwide in 2005, the lowest figure for 15 years, according to Elsevier magazine's annual Murder List. Amsterdam is once again the murder capital of the Netherlands with 32 people killed. [my note: Amsterdam pop. ~750,000]

-- http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=27342&name=The+Dutch+news+in+January+2006

Amsterdam, the murder capital of the Netherlands, had a murder rate of 4.3/100,000. The murder rate for San Diego, one of the safest big cities in the US, was 5.4/100,000; The figure for NY was 7.3/100,000. (NY and SD figures are for 2006)

_______________________________________

For crime stats in US cities: http://www.city-data.com

For nation to nation comparisons: http://www.nationmaster.com

[traviskicks]

long interesting article, IMO



Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.

[pooh fan]

“If drugs were legal, it would be possible for these two people to both feed their habits and live a modest life on the income from two menial jobs, which is all they would be really qualified for.”

Which section of Disneyland do you live in?

I’ve worked with addicts & alcoholics for more than 20 years. If they obtain abstinence & enter recovery as a lifestyle choice, they tend to do well. If they don’t, they tend to die. Usually, from illnesses that are caused by abuse & neglect,and usually way too young.

[Bastiat_Fan]

Please point out that part of the Constitution that allows the federal government to imprison me for growing pot in my basement. I must have missed that part.

[Bastiat_Fan]

Substance abuse often runs in families. People who are bipolar, or who have certain personality disorders, are more subject to substance abuse including alcohol and various drugs. If a person knows family history and can control the cravings, that’s cool. Unfortunately many cannot.

Sounds like a personal problem to me. The fact that some other guy is an idiot shouldn't mean the government gets to restrict what I get to do with my body.

Marijuana is known as a gateway drug - it is an introduction to getting high. Prolonged regular use can cause brain damage. Drinking a glass of red wine at dinner won’t.

If you're going to pull out the gateway drug idea, then you have to call alcohol a gate way drug as well. I guarantee just about everyone that has used hard drugs has also used alcohol. But then that would just disprove your point wouldn't it. Bottom line is, correlation is NOT causation.

Prolonged regular use can cause brain damage. Drinking a glass of red wine at dinner won’t.

But prolonged heavy drinking will kill you, or at least kill a few brain cells.

That all misses the point though. Be it getting a tattoo, skydiving, or shooting up, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, it's not anyone else's dammed business. Stop trying to legislate your morality upon me.

[Ajnin]

Have you ever heard of mail? What about visiting hours? How do you think they get the crap to make alcohol? They get all those priviledges because of politically correct beaurocrats that run the system. They shouldn’t get a damn think except an empty box and just barely enough sustanance to keep them alive. Prison is a misereable place for you and me to be, the criminals that habitually return to to prison have no problem. The idea that prison is about punishment is laughable.

[Ajnin]

think=thing

[Ajnin]

Disregard my last posts. I just reread your comment to me and I think we actually agree on the problem.

[Do Be]

A hundred and thirty years ago there were no drug laws in America and no meaningful drug problems. Nobody should need to be Albert Einstein to figure it out.

And a damn good thing that is because dear Albert is dead and no one has come forth saying they are him reincarnated.

Is a meaningful drug problem anything like a meaningful relationship? I need to know this because my wife of twenty-five years is about to leave and I'm wondering if I should have taken up drugs instead, and is it too late.

[Do Be]

Did the U.S. lose the war on murder?

Yes, everyday Murder wakes up with new friends and a smile on it's face.

Did the U.S. lose the war on cancer?

No. Beat the crap out of it in fact. Just never got around to telling anyone about the victory.

Did the U.S. lose the war on death?

Hold on to your hats kiddies because I have it from an informed source that the U.S. government is about to declare war on death.

"You won't believe it," said the same source, "I've seen the figures. They're hugh. Very few people like to talk about it but most people know someone this has happened to."

[Nate505]

Ahh, the execution strategy.

If you want to see an explosive increase in the number of cops and citizens getting involved in shootouts this is a great way to do so.

[Nate505]

Spain cannot be worse than most metropolitan cities in the US.

[Do Be]

Let me guess: you’re a Ron Paul supporter.

Let me guess: you're as dumb as you sound.

Let me guess: You haven't had a proper bowel movement in days and now the stuff is leaking out your fingers onto your keyboard.

[Do Be]

Wrong! Countries like Spain which decriminalized the personal use of drugs experienced a crime wave. I was one of the victims.

Still are.

That, in itself, doesn't not make you a conservative though it does provide some motivation.