Posted on 11/26/2007 11:11:07 AM PST by billorites
> You want people to work for you THEN PAY THEM something they can live on.
LOL! Right. Now just convince the passengers that they have to pay double/triple for that ticket, and convince them that they must fly regional airlines at all.
novel concept - competition in a free market, eh?
BTW, I am a flight instructor, and the majority of my trainees are born elsewhere.
In fact, most of the pilots in the world have training in Florida. (flying weather)
I would never advise a young man to prepare for a civilian pilot job as his only way of life.
I started out flying corporate in 1997 and interviewed for a regional airline position starting in 1999. I did not get the job I wanted, so I continued to fly corporate until 2001, when I landed a job with the regional carrier of my choice. In three years I went from being (roughly) the youngest guy in the interview group to (roughly) the oldest guy in the interview group. With the major carriers still hiring, the pool of pilots willing to take the lower paying regional jobs shrank and so the hiring standards were lowered. At the time of my hiring, 2500 hours was required - 500 of that in a multiengine aircraft. It quickly dropped down to 1200 hours and 100 multi. Basically we hired instructors, kids out of school, etc. I was paid $28.00 / hour and made $30k per year. Captains with 5 years under their belt made in the mid 60’s. It was outstanding experience, and, at the time the pay was actually better than most outfits. Our contract was very good.
Training for most outfits is fairly rigid. My own observation was that overall experience in aviation is what really counted. You could take a guy (or girl), and train them to fly a particular type fairly well. In a year or so, they’d have 1000 hours and do a good job. The problem is that many of them don’t have enough overall experience to think outside the box. But the airlines provide a standardized, regimented (hopefully) environment and it works pretty well - very little outside the box thinking is required.
The regionals are as safe as the majors, for the reasons I mentioned above. Captains with bad attitudes are more detrimental to safety than a green First Officer. I used to think that the quality of the pilot improved once you went with a Major; no amount of experience can overcome bad judgement/lack of character. I flew with former military guys that couldn’t land straight in a crosswind and I flew with a fair number of guys with only civilian time that thought Chuck Yeager owed them.
Management always tries to extract the maximum it can, and the crew scheduling can leave a lot to be desired. My favorite safety enhancing feature is the “Stand-Up Overnight”. Typically you report to work late in the day - say 7pm. You then fly one or two ‘legs’ and end up spending 5-6 hours away from the airplane and then report back on duty at say, 5am. You then fly a few more legs and your are done. Legally, you are within the FAA mandated 14 hour duty period. Physiologically you are in the toilet. Now keep in mind that your schedule might have you do a few nights like this and then switch you right back to working days, lest your body adjust to the back side of the clock. The better outfits ban this practice with contractual language.
I left the airlines in 2003 and went back to corporate aviation. I watched a lot of guys go through multiple layoffs before finding a carrier that stayed afloat. Corporate aviation is a hard gig too but I am home a lot more - most of the time. I work an average of 14-16 days per month. My average day is between 10-12 hours. I interact with some fine people, and I don’t have my rear end fingered every time I report to work (i.e. the TSA). At least not yet. I go different places, some cool, some not. There is no set schedule - sometimes I work on the weekend and sometimes I don’t. Our clientele are the people who run Wall Street and own many of the Fortune 100 and 500 companies you hear and read about. People worth hundreds of millions...
I personally don’t think that the Majors are an attractive place to work anymore. Pay is much less, and the work rules have eroded the formerly great lifestyle. When they start hiring again en masse, the current crop of regional guys will jump all over it - regardless of pay and lifestyle. The allure is that if you can suffer through so many years, you’ll eventually earn decent $$$ and get a weekend off here an there. Oh I almost forgot - and a good retirement (sarcasm). If I had been hired by one - and I didn’t even try - I’d be sucking it up and fighting for whatever I had just like the rest of the airline employees.
I’m lucky in that I found a small outfit where I’m now close to the top of the food chain. That’s really the only comfortable place in aviation.
I do not know if any regionals are doing it now, but I know just a few years ago some were charging upwards of $ 10,000 for the training for new hirers.
So do the math first year hires get paid $ 18,000 to 20,000. Now pay $10,000 for training and you now made only $ 10,000 the first year!
With a family now I would never fly for the airlines for slave wages.
I also have a scheme for the airlines to make a ton of money to the detriment of American pilots. I will not say what it is, I do not want to give them any ideas.
And how have you been? ;-)
Khan’t complain...
In the early 70’s I was the last of the 2500 hour copilots in my recon outfit. I had so many hours I played IP to keep from becoming complacent. There were many reasons for the high time requirement for upgrade, but they were soon overcome by lack of experienced copilots.
...and an accident with fatalities that perhaps would not have happened had the experience levels been able to be maintained.
Me either. But I'm pining for the hordes.
I have 1300 hours in hanggliders. Where do I sign up?
I stopped reading right here. If they can't bother to get their facts right in the beginning, then there's no point in reading further.
Big reason is the regionals pay Chinese coolie pay. Pilots cannot subsist on minimum wage.
“There is no pilot shortage and there never has been. There’s a shortage of people willing to work for nothing after incurring tens of thousands of dollars of costs to be a pilot.”
Exactly.
This is similar to the current concerns over exporting American jobs and importing third world workers who are willing to work at the low wages paid by the regionals.
The cost of General aviation flying is going up rapidly due to the price of avgas approaching $6.00 per gallon.
I fly frequently and when listening to the local aviation radio frequencies I hear more and more foreign pilots.
There a lot of people from the third world that are working in hi-tech jobs in the U.S. which pay good money, so they have the income to pay for flight training.
Or Ground in Denver. We had to turn around and taxi to the 26 because Aeromexico turned off the taxi way on to 35L. Denver was using 17s..
Oopsies....heard on frequency, followed by loud noise...
Hey! I think that kid was our captain the other day....does he fly for Mesa?!
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