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To: El Gato

After the driver was told he was under arrest, the driver escalated by walking away and putting his hands in his pockets after being told to put his hands behind his back.

The prisoner was not secured and it was a very dangerous moment in an arrest. When his wife exited the vehicle and posed an unknown second threat, that delayed the cuffing process even more. There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop, only an unknown risk stop. After disregarding the order to put your hands behind your back and putting your hands in your pockets is a frisk factor in any case.

The guy wasn’t tazed for being a jerk, he was tazed because it was the least use of force reasonable for the arrest situation. I would not want to be in either a knock-down drag-out fight in a roadway. He was headed back to the driver’s seat and the suspect getting back into the vehicle after ALL the strange behavior from the suspect is not acceptable. If he chose to take off and endangered everyone in a chase, he would endanger his pregnant wife and everyone on the roadway.

I’ve seen tapes where the driver is trying to comply and the officer is clearly in the wrong. Second guessing the officer on his successful tactics resulting a no real injury arrest, is tough.

The tazer had no noticeable after effect on the suspect. He was still demanding his Miranda Rights. He should have invoked his rights and remained silent. He might have at chance at some money then.

DK


312 posted on 11/23/2007 3:12:55 PM PST by Dark Knight
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To: Dark Knight

Police can’t arbitrarily place somebody under arrest. The officer was unable to explain to either the guy or his wife precisely what he was arresting him for or why he was tazed.

Also, don’t call him a “prisoner.” He was a motorist who didn’t agree with the speeding ticket. I’ve argued with cops over speeding tickets when I’ve been right and apologized when I’ve been wrong. I’ve never seen a cop act like this. If the cop sees this situation, as you do, as “ALL the strange behavior” then this must’ve been his first traffic stop. The guy was not fleeing the scene simply because he took a few steps away from the officer. I would contend he was walking away from the officer rather than towards his vehicle.

This guy will get his money. You can mark my words there. This cop is a trigger-happy jackass and we’re actually lucky this was a traffic incident rather than a real situation. This yahoo seems to be exactly the type that would unload two clips into an angry motorist. That’s the stuff that causes tons of negative publicity for a group of people who by and large are great and honorable people. Police officers have thankless jobs for the most part, and this idiot does them a huge disservice by acting like this. Police don’t have the money to be covering for stunts like this, and the Utah Highway Patrol is surely no exception.


314 posted on 11/23/2007 3:45:20 PM PST by flintsilver7
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To: Dark Knight
it was the least use of force reasonable for the arrest situation

I think I'd go with 'lowest risk use of force', rather than 'least use'. 'Firm grip' would have been lower on the force continuum, but the consequence of trying it could have ultimately involved a greater risk of injury to either or both of them if it resulted in the guy deciding to duke it out.

317 posted on 11/23/2007 3:58:36 PM PST by ArmstedFragg
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To: Dark Knight
If he chose to take off and endangered everyone in a chase, he would endanger his pregnant wife and everyone on the roadway.

Whereupon everyone injured would have sued the state for allowing it to happen.

318 posted on 11/23/2007 4:00:44 PM PST by ArmstedFragg
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To: Dark Knight
After the driver was told he was under arrest, the driver escalated by walking away and putting his hands in his pockets after being told to put his hands behind his back.

He was not told he was under arrest, that I could hear. He was told to turn around and put his hands behind his back. He did turn around, and put his hands by his pockets, a very natural position depending on one's arm length. The hand that is visible has a thumb hooked on the pocket. A relaxed if somewhat disrespect full posture, but hardly threatening. Granted he should not have strolled away, and he should have put his hands behind his back. But a "you're under arrest for" ??? Whatever it was, would have been quiet reasonable at that point, since up to not putting is hands behind his back, the subject had been as cooperative as the law requires. The detainee never raised his voice, never a move towards the officer or any move that could be interpreted as going for a weapon. He was not as cooperative as he could have been, but he was also not combative at all.

The prisoner was not secured and it was a very dangerous moment in an arrest. When his wife exited the vehicle and posed an unknown second threat, that delayed the cuffing process even more.

The guy had not been informed he was a prisoner, and wasn't really, at most he was a detainee. Since he had not been told he was under arrest.

Yes with a combative subject, those steps can after cuffing, but this guy was not combative. Not passive and totally cooperative, but not combative.

The wife did not exit the vehicle until after the guy was tazed. What would you expect her to do seeing her husband fall to the ground?

The guy wasn’t tazed for being a jerk, he was tazed because it was the least use of force reasonable for the arrest situation.

Funny then that he was tazed right after the second time the subject asked the officer what was wrong with him.

The tazer had no noticeable after effect on the suspect.

Other than knocking him to the ground you mean? That was desired affect was it not?

363 posted on 11/24/2007 11:29:28 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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