Posted on 11/22/2007 7:37:13 AM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
I still havent figured out why, in a free country, a cop has the authority to deny said freedom over a signature on a friggin piece of paper...
Well, it goes like this: a Bill is proposed in the State Legislature . . . .
Het dd, hows it feel to be banished from the kingdom ???
you should know better than to get uppity when speaking to your master...
“Het dd, hows it feel to be banished from the kingdom ???”
Its ok, I don’t want to live in the same world those trigger happy thugs live in.
“you should know better than to get uppity when speaking to your master..”
There sure is a lot of that from the pro-taze crowd here on FR. Its obvious their training has been sponsored by the companies who SELL tasers. So we know it cannot be biased. /sarc
“When I watch the video closely, I believe Gardner had already decided to pull his Taser out before he even set his clipboard down. The decision to USE it.. once pulled, was WAY too quick.”
If Gardner believed Massey to be a threat why did he turn his back on him? Gardner turned around, walked back to his car and put the clipboard on the hood. All with his back to Massey.
He could not have perceived Massey to be a threat if he did this. I agree that he had already decided to taze Massey though. Because as soon as his hands were empty he pulled his tazer.
The cop never informed him he was being arrested.
we all know that after the decades and monopolistic layers of EVIL legislation have been set in stone, that the fix is in. Corruption at all levels will not willingly give up the power it has so eagerly acquired by asking it nicely.
The fact that 'leo' is no longer a peace officer, but 'serves' the legislators [no questions asked] is enough to instruct any rational mind that their motives are purely self serving and self protecting.
Since most of the 'laws' on the books are for power and revenue generation, and are only complied with for the sake of being 'free' a little longer [while for decades the legislative process has continually flowed towards evil ], theres really no need to ask they be changed. an 'illegal' order isnt required to be followed nor an immoral 'law'.
Now you will proceed to call me things like 'anarchist' and a 'keyboard crybaby' etc etc etc, so I'll go ahead and just concede that only God himself will ultimately judge those who tyrannize their fellows, but Americans are getting pretty short on tolerating thugs in human form...
“Now you will proceed to call me things like ‘anarchist’ and a ‘keyboard crybaby’ etc etc etc, so I’ll go ahead and just concede that only God himself will ultimately judge those who tyrannize their fellows, but Americans are getting pretty short on tolerating thugs in human form...”
The bible instructs us to follow our government. It also condemns government officials who abuse their power.
better wording for the intent of the sentence
The bible instructs us to follow our government. It also condemns government officials who abuse their power.
As I study the Word, I believe today that the only reason that God fearing men havent risen yet, is that most have been restrained because of this doctrine.
I also feel that every free spirit has an internal 'clock' that knows when the 'time' is passed from passive to defensive action, because believers will know right vs wrong = good vs evil and understand that to go along with the program OF evil IS evil, and that to fight it is righteous. Thats how I read it today anyway.
I dont think He would have me surrender my physical life at the hand of evil through a third party by government any more than I expect Him to demand that I die at the hand of the ordinary murderer. And these I dont expect any more than demanding that I martyr myself rather than battle evil, because if Im physically dead, I can no longer help my fellows to find His Grace.
Im an infant scripturally, but I do believe he kept me for a reason, after letting me flounder in evil for many years. that said, when 'good men' stop 'doing nothing' it will be because He has chosen the time and place to demonstrate His Glory to those who will see...
“As I study the Word, I believe today that the only reason that God fearing men havent risen yet, is that most have been restrained because of this doctrine.”
I think there’s a place in Romans where obedience to ungodly governments is addressed. I think most Christian people are restrained by this but also by the separation the government has been successful. Most of the evil is employed piece by piece and the frogs don’t even realize the temp is increasing.
“Im an infant scripturally, but I do believe he kept me for a reason, after letting me flounder in evil for many years.”
We all have things to learn in our walk. IMO though he never considered not keeping you or anyone else. They are the ones to make that decision.
Incrementalism is being employed very effectively. I think in 10-15 years the LEO’s will be wearing blue berets of the UN and tazers will be quite popular. Might be faster if Hillary is elected.
Thanks for taking my comment with good humor.
the "He knew my freewill choice before I made it" doctrine is one Ive struggled with. and as such, restrains my hand when dealing with perceived evil that is anything other than the 'in your face right now' kind. Its tough to say what my actions will be [trying not to overstep my bounds as if I could], because I have come to believe that whatever happens is exactly as its supposed to be at this moment, and therein lies our 'clock'. I simply strive today to do His will, not mine.
thanks for sharing your perspective, FReegards...
“The decision to USE it.. once pulled, was WAY too quick.”
The officer said “Turn around and put your hands behind your back”, “Turn around and put your hands behind your back”, “turn around”, “Turn around”, then he fired the taser.
Exactly how many times did he have to repeat himself????
When the officer fired, the driver was not standing in place, he was facing away from the officer, and moving towards his vehicle.
Again, this whole thing involves Judgment call/snap decision by those on the scene, and UTAH code, and UTAH HPD policy.
None of which I am an expert in.
Those defending the driver state that the officer was in the wrong because he never uttered the words “you are under arrest”.
Others defending the driver claim that UTAH code specifies you have the RIGHT not to sign the ticket, and that if you refuse, the officer is not required to take you to jail.
They make this claim with the implication that the driver was aware of this fact, and that is why he didn’t understand why the officer was ‘arresting’ him.
Now, which is it? He’s smart and knows the UTAH HPD CODE, but not smart enough to understand the words “Turn around and put your hands behind your back”, repeated four times?
“I think the driver was just being ignorant and stupid. Crazy me.. I EXPECT the cop to be smarter... based on his superior understanding of the law.”
Based on his experience, he could have used several options.
Again. Hindsight is 20/20.
Regardless to endless claims that the driver ‘did nothing wrong’, and whether or not he ‘saw’ the alleged ‘first 40mph’ sign, or the second, he had violated the posted speed limit.
He would not accept the responsibility for it like a man, and got treated like a child who got punished for his behavior.
Blame the cop for not being perfect, or for having ‘had it’ with the ‘young driver’ who thought he had the ‘RIGHT’ to order the policeman around.
Once more, A driver’s license is a privilege, not a RIGHT.
You do not have the RIGHT to TRY your court case on the side of the road.
Take away YOUR guns, and the RIGHT to have them. When home invaders come and rape your wife and daughters, call the police. Let them tell you they don’t THINK the robbers did anything wrong, therefore they aren’t gonna show up, besides, they no longer have guns, or tasers, or cars, so.... you are on your own.
That is the road you are going down, with the line of thought you have been pursuing.
“Exactly how many times did he have to repeat himself????”
He said turn around. The driver turned around. Then he said turn around, turn around.... What did the officer want?
The driver wasn’t threatening the cop as the cop had turned his back on the driver. IMO, when he said “hop out of your car” he had made the decision to tazer the driver. He walked back to the police car and put his clipboard on it. He immediately went for his taser.
“They make this claim with the implication that the driver was aware of this fact, and that is why he didn’t understand why the officer was ‘arresting’ him.”
Advising the person they are under arrest is not a ‘claim’; its the law. I’ve posted the Utah code in this thread. The law states the officer is supposed to inform the person they are under arrest. There are exceptions which clearly were not met prior to the turn around commands. If I were on a jury they wouldn’t be met at any time during this encounter. The only possible excuse was the driver was trying to escape. If the driver were running it would be different but he was moving slowly.
“He’s smart and knows the UTAH HPD CODE, but not smart enough to understand the words “Turn around and put your hands behind your back”, repeated four times?”
He had already turned around once. Do you want him to stand there and turn around in circles?
The driver was rude. The officer over reacted, handled the situation poorly, lied to a fellow officer, risked this guys life and abused his authority. I hope he loses his job and the county has to pay. Perhaps they will train their officers to be more careful in use of force. Properly handled this would have been a ticket and possibly some revenue from the speed trap. Instead its a huge black eye for Utah.
“Take away YOUR guns, and the RIGHT to have them. When home invaders come and rape your wife and daughters, call the police. Let them tell you they don’t THINK the robbers did anything wrong, therefore they aren’t gonna show up, besides, they no longer have guns, or tasers, or cars, so.... you are on your own.”
You really don’t get it do you. The American public does not want to see fellow citizens tasered on the side of a busy highway for a stupid ticket. If the driver had threatened the officer it would be different.
Seems all some cops know how to do these days is apply force.
Wrong.
Driving is a Right - Not a Privilege.
Take away Tasers from the police. Take away their billy-clubs, mace, and their revolvers. Take away their badges. Only allow them to drive regular cars like everyone else. Make them pull up beside you and beg you to pull over. Ignore them and keep driving, because you don’t THINK you did anything wrong, since you pay taxes and own the road.
Good idea.
If it is a RIGHT, why do you have to pass tests, and pay for it?
Why, when you license is suspended, does the judge say, and the paperwork, that your PRIVILEGE TO DRIVE has been suspended?
If it is a RIGHT, then obviously they cannot take away your driver’s license.
Should it happen that you end up facing loss of your license, be sure to tell the JUDGE that it is your RIGHT to have that license, and that he cannot take it away from you.
Good luck.
You didn't read the essay at the link I posted.
If you ask for and take a "license" from the state, that is where the trouble starts.
Just don't do it.
My all time favorite hobby is drawing cartoons. The problem was that I don't have that much time, and I'm not all that great of an artist either. The Internet provides the pictures so that I can focus on the punchlines..
Best Freegards
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.