Family calls mistaken death of son 'a miracle'(Organ donation movement takes a hit)

AP ^ | 11/21/2007 3:54 AM | AP

[ga medic]

“Because if you are found unconscious and it looks like you are dying and do not have an organ donor card on you, then they have to keep up life saving efforts twice as long as required for someone with a signed organ donor card.”

Not true. Once life saving efforts are discontinued the organs are not acceptible for donation anyway, so your EMT friend is telling you stories.

There is not a requirement of time for life saving efforts. Unless the death is obvious and irreversible, such as a decapitation, EMS will almost always continue life support until they reach a trauma center. I have never once in 23 years looked to see if a patient is an organ donor. Makes absolutely no difference in how I treat my patients.

[ga medic]

“prevent the premature harvesting of organs from Democrats.”

and the problem is........

[kalee]

Our friends’ Down Syndrome son, age 4, needs a heart. The doctors will not put him on the list, so our friends watch as their little boy slowly goes down hill and eventually dies.
The Mickey Mantle story makes my blood boil.

[ga medic]

http://www.optn.org/latestData/rptData.asp

You should be ashamed of yourself. As an RN you should be far more conscientious with your facts. According to the organ procurement network, since 1988 there have been 412,747 organ transplants. Of those, 71,799 have gone to African Americans. This represents 17% of organs, not 50%. Additionally, the demand for kidneys is much higher in the African American community, so a percentage of these are kidney donations from live donors. I don’t see what the race of the recipient matters anyway.

As for the rush to contact Lifenet, maybe you see that. However, RNs certainly don’t make a determination of eligibility, and making a call to Lifenet is not the same as a premature harvesting of organs. Families can be pushed into authorization for organ donation, but that does not affect the process either.

The process works the same, and a patient must meet numerous criteria, one of which is brain death, to become an organ donor, whether the family or the RN wants it or not. Only 1% of patients are even considered eligible to donate organs, and 99% of them are identified in ICU, not ER. If you have actually seen a patient, that you believe did not meet the criteria for brain death, that was used for organ donation, did you report the crime? Have you even seen this? If you haven’t then why are indicating to others that this is likely to occur?

[jellybean]

But would you be willing to accept someone else's organ if need be?

No.

[ga medic]

Being brain dead and being in a coma are two different things. You say you are involved in life issue, which is great. Have you ever been involved in an organ donation situation? Do you know anything about it? You seem to imagine that just becuase the family signs a form that the organs can be donated, the deal is complete. This is only the beginning of a long process.

Family, and hospital workers do not determine the eligibility of organs for donation. Nurses can call the agency responsible, agents can obtain signatures of the family members, and doctors can begin testing. None of this ensures that the organs will be harvested. There are multiple doctors involved. Multiple results of testing must be obtained and documented. The family must offer consent, and still there are only 1% of people that qualify for organ donors. The 1% are not 24 hours into a coma, but medically dead, with no brain activity. They are almost always in ICU units, and their organs are never taken within 24 hours.

If you have any evidence to support what you are saying please provide it. I am sure you have integrity, but please evaluate your sources and provide evidence for what they are saying, or don’t post it. People’s lives are at stake here. It is far too serious for you to pass along erroneous and unsubstantiated rumors.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

He did say the likelihood that someone who has been confirmed to be brain dead could "wake up" is "almost impossible."

First Doctor: "Make sure he's dead"

Second Doctor, plunging a scalpel into donor's chest: "He's dead."

[murron]

For some reason, you choose not to believe what has already been proven. Not only have I already provided proof, vis a vis those that I know that are on the front lines of this situation, but also the nurse with 22 years experience who has witnessed exactly what I’ve been saying. Maybe you haven’t witnessed or experienced it personally, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t happening.

[ga medic]

You have proven nothing. All you have told me is some rumor or story told to you by someone else. I am sure there are nurses that call organ donation too soon, and maybe some families are asked to sign forms before it is clear that their loved ones will die. It doesn’t make organ donation any more likely. It is part of a process, but there are several more steps required. You obviously don’t know anything about the process or medical protocols, which probably explains why you don’t understand what I am saying. You haven’t responded to anything I have said. “But someone told me this happened” is not proof of anything.

BTW your nurse with 22 years experience gave incorrect information about African American recipients, why do you assume everything else she says is true?

[mdmathis6]

Oh don’t “shame” me...the statistics are all over the place...broken down into race, creed, religious, belief systems . See also my statistics at the bottom! The over all donor rate/potential donors is 10 percent/ US potential donor population with 6.3 percent/per capita of potential African American donor rate.(take 100 per cent of all potential African American donors...only 6.3 per cent of those donate for whatever reasons) The race issue is not about whether or not blacks get kidneys or other organs but whether or not they donate on par with other races and WHY......Your facts don’t cite that the donation part!

With the history of experimentation (ie Tuskagee) and sterilisation practises in the past, the Blacks have an aversion to donation for fear they would quickly be “snuffed”. They also will not sign quick DNR’s and want everything done to the point where the pressor agents are the only thing that keep the heart beating until the toxins finally intefere with sodium/potassium pump process of the heart. I talk to these folks, a lot!

This little table at the bottom explains the donor rates per capita in terms of age, race sex, gender. The over all per capita rates are at the bottom. The percentages are in decimal points in the third column. We find that blacks and “other” donate at about 6-7 percent of donor rate potentials while whites and hispanics donate at 11 percent donor rate potentials. Now the question is why?....one can argue ignorance or education or in the conversations I’ve heard..historic mistrust! And I don’t blame blacks...I mistrust the organ donation system as well.

There aren’t enough safe guards especially from the “donation true beleiver” types who are quick to write off those who are going to need expensive care but may have the potential to recover to use-ful lives.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1464027
National Donor Rates (NDRs) by Age, Sex, and Race

Population Descriptors National Donor Rate Potential Actual NDR
Overall NDR 9,830 98,628 0.0997
White
Female
0–17 557 1,481 0.3761
18–49 1,507 6,298 0.2393
50–74 980 21,774 0.045
Male
0–17 1,086 2,237 0.4855
18–49 2,598 12,075 0.2152
50–74 925 25,206 0.0367
Black
Female
0–17 94 361 0.2604
18–49 193 2,391 0.0807
50–74 75 5,530 0.0136
Male
0–17 249 615 0.4049
18–49 452 3,877 0.1166
50–74 71 6,000 0.0118
Hispanic
Female
0–17 68 249 0.2731
18–49 149 874 0.1705
50–74 55 1,511 0.0364
Male
0–17 152 469 0.3241
18–49 350 2,626 0.1333
50–74 56 1,927 0.0291
Other
Female
0–17 21 79 0.2658
18–49 42 386 0.1088
50–74 27 946 0.0285
Male
0–17 31 119 0.2605
18–49 66 570 0.1158
50–74 26 1,027 0.0253
Other Major Groups
Sex
Female, all 3,768 41,880 0.09
Male,all 6,062 56,748 0.11
Age Groups
0–17 2,258 5,610 0.402
18–49 5,357 29,097 0.184
50–74 2,215 63,921 0.035
Race
White 7,653 69,071 0.11
Black 1,134 18,774 0.063
Hispanic 830 7,656 0.11
Other 213 3,127 0.068

[ga medic]

You were the one that mistakenly stated that African Americans received 50% of organ donations while representing only 12% of the population. I just wanted to make clear that is not the case.

You donor rates are old also. The data you referenced is from 1994-1995. Since then, there have been major campaigns to educate the African American community about the benefits of organ donation. Also, there has been a push to educate health care workers as well, as blacks had been far less likely to be designated as a potential organ donor than whites.

Recent data indicates that of 5423 transplants completed so far in 2007, 871 have been from African American donors. This represents 16%. Data from 2006 is similar. You can find all this information at the website I referenced in my previous post.

If you are going to make a generalization, you should use recent information. You would not want to receive health care from 1994-95 standards, yet you cite donor rates from 1994-95 as part of your theory that patients in hospitals are in danger of having their organs harvested prematurely. I am not sure what your ethnicity statistics were supposed to prove, but they were not correct. You never answered my questions about whether you know of any patient whose organs were harvested prematurely. If you believe that it is unsafe to designate that you would like to be an organ donor, I would think that you would have some reason other than statistics from 1994.

[Tulsa Ramjet]

“The Mickey Mantle story makes my blood boil.”

I think Mickey lasted a week.

[mdmathis6]

The study I looked at was from 2002, so which means they probably did collate info from the 1990’s....it looked at donor percentage rates per group....If I find an updated study from 2007 I will certainly update my posting. You are looking at the end recipient rates, I’m looking at the donor rates per capita per group.

As for the 50 per cent number I was citing another(not myself) questioner of the “harpy” who was using statistics from another study....of which the “harpy” actually stated she knew of and agreed with the 2nd questioner! Since you feel that info was wrong...perhaps even more pointed questions should have been asked of the “Harpy”!

[murron]

No sir. This is not a rumor. These are reputable people who do not speak without first hand knowledge. The only proof that I could provide that would make you happy would be names, dates, patients identities, and the names of the hospitals. I’m not in a court of law, and you don’t deserve any more of my time. You obviously have a vested interest in the organ donation business or you wouldn’t be so gung-ho in trying to discredit people you do not even know. If you knew of whom I speak, you would realize how silly you sound.

[kalee]

I remember that he didn’t last long. It still upsets me that his fame helped him scoot to the head of the line while our friends’ dear son is not even considered as a possible recipient because of his Downs.

[ga medic]

Please. You make me laugh. I have been in this business for a long time, and I know how things work. I am not trying to discredit your unnamed “reputable” friends, only the inforamtion they are giving you.

Your reputable friends belong in jail. They are breaking the law, by failing to report these conditions. If whatever hospital they work in pays them for securing organs, the entire hospital needs to be shut down. I have to question why your friends have not called attention to this problem. They are not describing the organ donor process, they are describing a criminal enterprise that is being operated outside the laws.

My vested interest in the organ donation business is only that there are thousands of lives saved by organ donations every year, and thousands more could be saved if more organs were available. I want to save lives, not end them. Everyone that I have ever met in the medical field feels the same way, and I know no one that would fail to report those involved in the operations your friends describe.

I would also point out that of all the people posting, no one has yet to provide knowledge of any patient who has actually had their organs harvested, without the appropriate procedures taking place. No offense, but no matter how offended you are, your story doesn’t add up. I won’t waste your time any more. But, please ask your friends to report their situation to the district attorney.

[syriacus]

This story is making the news rounds today.

[Fresh Wind]

Hospital = chop shop

[A Texan]

“But would you be willing to accept someone else's organ if need be?”

I was thinking the same thing. No one wants to donate but if it was them or their kid that needs saving it would be a whole different story.

[Freedom Dignity n Honor]

I agree with you. I won't donate my organs because of situations like in this article and I do not think that I could accept organs from someone whom I feel might have been murdered or their death hastened just so that their organs could be harvested.

If I accepted a donated organ, I don't think I could live with myself so it would be better to place myself in God's hands and let what will be, be.