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To: epow
I am very much afraid that we gun rights advocates will live to regret the day that this case came before the high court. Just one strike and you're out in this game.

Unless you live in the 5th Circuit or the DC Circuit's jurisdiction, this case can do little to harm you.

As things stand today, you cannot successfully mount a 2A challenge to a gun control law, because the Court will just point to Miller and say you're not in a militia, and that's all it takes today to dismiss your claim. Oh, and they might fine you for bringing a frivolous claim which has been rejected time and again.

If we lose, you will not be able to successfully mount a 2A challenge to a gun control law, because the Court will just point to Heller and say you're not in a militia, and that's all it takes today to dismiss your claim. Oh, and they might fine you for bringing a frivolous claim which has been rejected time and again.

See how we really have nothing to lose and everything to gain?
186 posted on 11/21/2007 2:53:49 AM PST by publiusF27
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To: publiusF27; epow
Unless you live in the 5th Circuit or the DC Circuit's jurisdiction, this case can do little to harm you.

As things stand today, you cannot successfully mount a 2A challenge to a gun control law, because the Court will just point to Miller and say you're not in a militia, and that's all it takes today to dismiss your claim. Oh, and they might fine you for bringing a frivolous claim which has been rejected time and again.

If we lose, you will not be able to successfully mount a 2A challenge to a gun control law, because the Court will just point to Heller and say you're not in a militia, and that's all it takes today to dismiss your claim. Oh, and they might fine you for bringing a frivolous claim which has been rejected time and again.

See how we really have nothing to lose and everything to gain?

That is simply incorrect. This sort of "lawyerly myopia" is what is going to destroy our rights and freedom.

You're so wrapped-up in legalistic tactics that you're ignoring the greater danger of the political and cultural strategy being implemented. While it is technically correct that a negative ruling won't have an appreciable effect on mounting "2A challenges" to gun control laws, that is essentially irrelevant.

What such a ruling will actually signify is a fatal defeat in the battle of ideas and principles, in which the concepts of individual rights and freedom upon which this nation was established will have finally been overpowered by those of collectivist statism. The loss of the Second Amendment will represent the destruction of the last bulwark and guarantee of the theoretical underpinnings of the moral and philosophical case for individual rights and resistance to tyranny made by the Founding Fathers in the Declaration of Independence.

A negative ruling will destroy the fragile ambiguity which has so far sustained our Second Amendment rights and will send a clear signal to the anti-gun enemies of freedom that they have won the war of ideas and now have a free-hand to ramp up their efforts to disarm the American people. It will open the floodgates to new oppressive legislation, and not only will 2A challenges be moot, but pretty much any challenges to gun control efforts will eventually be as well.

The immediate battle is legal, but the war is cultural, ideological and political. A victory in the court would be a welcome respite, but it will in no way guarantee an ultimate victory for our rights. A loss, however, will immediately entail a tremendous loss of ground in that larger war.

195 posted on 11/21/2007 6:30:50 AM PST by tarheelswamprat
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To: publiusF27
See how we really have nothing to lose and everything to gain?

No I don't. If the 2nd Amendment is ruled by the USSC to be merely a "right" of state governments to arm a militia the antis will shift into a full court press to force European style gun control on Americans. Even though some lower federal courts have already made such a ruling, the antis are still held back to some degree by the public perception that the amendment actually guarantees an individual right, which of course it does. If the USSC makes a similar ruling it will be a signal to the antis at every level of government that they can now go all out to pass stricter gun laws.

198 posted on 11/21/2007 6:53:30 AM PST by epow
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