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To: allmendream; YHAOS; Alamo-Girl; js1138; xzins
So as I pointed out to bb, I wouldn’t go about quoting Franklin (or Thomas Jefferson) as supporting evidence for the notion that the founding principles of this nation were Christian to its core.

Well jeepers, allmendream, deists are Christians too, at least in general outline. We could say the same of Isaac Newton, notwithstanding that many Christian sects regard him a heretic for rejecting the doctrine of the Holy Trinity (for Occam's Razor reasons, as an unnecessary complication of the essential nature of God). Newton's concept of God more closely resembles that of Judaism. Newton's God is the Pantocrator, who does the intervening into created nature all by himself, having no Son or Holy Spirit to do it for him (so to speak).

Still, it's interesting to note (again) that Franklin's speech was delivered when he was a seasoned, aged man. And it is not the speech that we would expect to hear from a deist, for he definitely suggests that God does engage himself in the affairs of men.

And also Jefferson's motto, "Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God," wasn't something that he just put on his tombstone. It was graven on his personal seal, which he used constantly during life. This was in the days when letters were not sealed in glued envelopes. They were sealed with sealing wax, into which one's personal seal was impressed to secure the sturdy closure of the envelope. Jefferson was a prolific letter writer. Any recipient of a TJ letter would see the seal, and know the identity of the sender before even opening his mail. TJ chose that motto presumably because it reflected beliefs that he strongly and deeply identified with.

202 posted on 11/17/2007 10:19:13 AM PST by betty boop (Simplicity is the highest form of sophistication. -- Leonardo da Vinci)
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To: betty boop
Desist do not believe in the divinity of Christ. Some Deists believe in a ‘clockmaker’ Creator who doesn’t interfere in the affairs of the universe. Franklin was not among these Deists. He believed that everything was a manifestation of Divine Will. But he didn’t believe that Christ was Lord.

Jefferson's view was that the virgin birth of Christ was as unlikely as the mystical generation of Athena from the skull of Zeus. He was not a Christian either, except as a proponent of the philosophy of Christ. But Christianity without Spirituality is not really Christianity. Whatever the mans merits or faults, he was not a Christian as Christianity is usually defined.

204 posted on 11/17/2007 10:34:02 AM PST by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD (Hunter 08))
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