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To: robertpaulsen
I think Lopez and Morrison demonstrate that Congress is out of control. Fortunately, we had a Supreme Court that put them in their place.

But they didn't stay in their place long, did they? The gun free school zones act was back the next year, and has been on the books again for over a decade now.

Perhaps you can tell me what interstate commerce Congress should not be allowed to regulate?

If they stuck to regulating interstate commerce, I wouldn't have a problem. My problem is with living document theorists who have decided that noneconomic, intrastate activities such as growing your own wheat or cannabis plant can be regulated because of "aggregation" creating "substantial effects" on interstate commerce. It is that substantial effects reasoning which has led to acts such as the gun free school zones act, and that is what we need to revisit.

You are part of the "unorganized" militia. You get a pointed stick.

Nothing in the 2nd amendment says that ONLY the organized militia have the right to bear arms. It says the people have that right. Where is your evidence that the Founders intended for Congress to have the power to disarm the unorganized militia? Did they ever talk about limiting the people to pointed sticks?

"And that said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress...to prevent the people of the Unites States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..." SAM ADAMS, in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, Aug. 20, 1789.

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good." -George Washington

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.” ~ Noah Webster

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." - George Mason

Thomas Paine: "Arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe and preserve order in the world as well as property."

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves. ... The Constitution ought to secure a genuine [militia] and guard against a select militia, by providing that the militias shall always be kept well organized, armed, and disciplined, and include ... all men capable of bearing arms, and that all regulations tending to render this militia useless and defenseless, by establishing select corps of militia, or distinct bodies of military men not having permanent interests and attachments in the community [are] to be avoided. ... To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." --Richard Henry Lee


976 posted on 11/15/2007 6:03:39 PM PST by publiusF27
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To: publiusF27
"But they didn't stay in their place long, did they? The gun free school zones act was back the next year, and has been on the books again for over a decade now."

Correct. And in my opinion, if challenged, would not stand given the decision in Morrison.

"It is that substantial effects reasoning which has led to acts such as the gun free school zones act, and that is what we need to revisit."

And before that, the reasoning used to be "direct" and "indirect". We're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

The problem is Congress -- not the Commerce Clause, not the substantial effects test, not the Necessary and Proper Clause. Every two years we elect those who write the laws. It's time for the voter to take responsibility, rather than hoping the U.S. Supreme Court will continue to rein in Congress.

"Nothing in the 2nd amendment says that ONLY the organized militia have the right to bear arms."

Correct. However, the second amendment protects the right only of "the people" in a "well regulated" Militia. Or so the majority of federal courts have ruled.

"Where is your evidence that the Founders intended for Congress to have the power to disarm the unorganized militia?"

Where is your evidence that I ever thought that was the Founder's intent? I have no idea where Congress would get this kind of power.

"Did they ever talk about limiting the people to pointed sticks?"

Not a Monty Python fan. I apologize and retract my attempt at humor.

As for your quotes. I have no doubt the Founders believed in an individual right to keep and bear arms. But that's a right protected by state constitutions, and that's where we need to focus our efforts.

987 posted on 11/16/2007 5:51:03 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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