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To: CounterCounterCulture

>>> I’ve seen a similar failure to admit flaws from Hunter supporters (for instance, lack of electability) - but that doesn’t seem to offend you.

>> What you have is a “flaw” based on perception. The perception is what is flawed.

With regard to public opinion, perception is reality. The perception that Duncan Hunter is floundering around 1-2% support is not flawed ... it is reality based on scientific polling data. There is simply no indication of a groundswell of support for Hunter.

>> Duncan Hunter was first elected to Congress, defeating an 18-year Democrat incumbent in what was then a safe district for Democrats. History has shown Duncan Hunter to have electability.

And Dennis Kucinich and Ted Kennedy have been repeatedly elected locally ... that certainly doesn’t mean they’re electable on a national scale.

>> Today the scoreboard shows every candidate running for President tied with zero votes received. The score will remain that until the first vote is cast, which isn’t for a few months.

Polling data, fundraising, etc. are means of predicting that outcome. Duncan Hunter is not doing well thus far. You are certainly free to ignore or deny reality for as long as you wish ... but the reality is what it is. Don’t expect fellow conservatives like me to stick our heads in the sand along with you.

>> What you need to do is scare people away from voting for Duncan Hunter is create a perception that Hunter is (quote) “unelectable” (unquote).

First - I don’t create reality ... I just observe it. Second, people aren’t being “scared away” from voting for Hunter ... the vast majority of conservatives weren’t Hunter-voters to begin with. Among the Republican field ... Hunter’s getting 1%. The Republican Party is comprised of FAR more than 1% conservatives. Those conservatives’ consciences are leading them elsewhere - mostly to Thompson ... some to Romney, Huckabee, McCain, and even a few to Giuliani (as I would figure far more than 1% of his 25% support is from genuine conservatives).

>> You need to scare people with what you hope is a self-fulfilling prophecy. And it’s not just you. All the candidate teams have to put out that their candidate is the “only one” capable of defeating Hillary.

“My candidate” is NOT the “only one capable of defeating Hillary” ... but I believe he is the most conservative candidate capable of doing so. I believe Giuliani, Romney, Thompson and possibly McCain or Huckabee have a reasonable shot at beating Hillary. I believe Brownback, Hunter, Tancredo, Paul, Cox and Keyes are wasting their time - and ours.

>> All this gamesmanship pits people voting against their conscience with the most convincing scare tactics.

Who said I was voting against my conscience? It seems supremely arrogant for Duncan Hunter supporters to assume that a conservative’s conscience would necessarily lead him to vote for Duncan Hunter.

>> Mediocrity is unacceptable with our Constitutional rights and civil liberties on the line.

And perfection is unattainable. All candidates are impefect ... some more than others. I’ve yet to see any Hunter supporter give a convincing argument why to pick Hunter over Thompson ... outside of “vote your conscience”. Duncan Hunter didn’t register on my conscience.

H


2,186 posted on 10/10/2007 10:23:10 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor (How 'Bout Them Cowboys!!!)
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To: Hemorrhage
Perception is not reality. Reality doesn't happen until January. Perception is fluid. Perception changes and there still is time for more change.

Support for candidates right now is soft. If you want to go by polling numbers, at one time John McCain was in the 30 percent range. His numbers plummetted. His numbers were never solid to begin with and when people start moving away from name recognition and start looking at what a candidate advocates, that soft support vanishes. What was once considered a strong candidate has become a longshot. So much for perception equaling reality.

Many people aren't really jazzed about the so-called top-tier candidates and when they find out about Duncan Hunter, they are impressed with him. But then it goes back to that point of mine of people getting scared away from backing him with false perceptions of "can he win?" and being manipulated into supporting Candidate B to keep Candidate C from winning. It's a game that entices people from voting for their favorite candidate.

Missing the point that Hunter initially won in a Democrat-majority district. Hunter can draw from a vast voting base. Predictions are for Vegas and phony psychics. Polls were used to declare Florida for Gore in 2000. Not only was it not true, but it was used to discourage voters. It almost succeeded too. People let the mainstream media manipulate them, to discourage people from supporting good conservative candidates.

And I can do without your petty personal insults. We know the poll numbers are low and the fundraising isn't as it ought to be. That's why we are here to promote our candidate as the best candidate and it's in the best interests of people to get on board right now.

I don't believe Giuliani or McCain can win. Giuliani has too much baggage Hillary will exploit. Giuliani and McCain will alienate too many conservatives and it'll be 2006 again. Romney will have a hard time getting elected with both Democrats and Republicans not wanting to vote for a Mormon. Thompson's too much of an unknown right now; mostly hype right now. And if you really want to go into perceptions, Thompson has a few negative "perceptions" but I won't go so far as to make a claim "perception is reality" to attempt to tarnish Thompson in what may be a false perception. As we saw from this debate, Duncan Hunter understands the problems of the threat of Red China and the trade imbalance than Fred Thompson. Hunter has command of international affairs and implications for our country and it shows in each and every debate. And Thompson supported McCain's disgusting McCain/Feingold bill.

Oh, but why do I bother talking issues when that old line of "perception equals reality" gets thrown around. Why have a debate? Let's all get touchy-feely with our "perceptions" and use that to pick a president. No wonder we have such mediocrity.

2,205 posted on 10/10/2007 11:35:33 PM PDT by CounterCounterCulture (Duncan Hunter / Alan Keyes '08)
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