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To: untrained skeptic

Your points about new versus used is valid.

Your point about selling to Mexico and thenpurchasing across the internet just means that customs would have to collect the tax, which they do already for any import duties we already have.

All businesses but cash businesses already use POS systems(and we know why they don’t). A few clicks of the mouse and you have sales tax reports. I don’t see any problem with doing the same thing for the Fair Tax.

Every other country imposes import duties on a wide variety of products. We used to, years ago, get most of our federal revenue from the same. Norway, for example, imposes a 400% VAT on imported alcohol.

The biggest problem I see is that all individuals/families should pay some tax. We currently have almost 50% of filers who don’t owe/pay tax - so anything they get from the government is essentially “free”. That MUST change. Those people vote Democrat because the Dems promise more giveaways.

Think healthcare/insurance. If you don’t currently pay federal taxes, and you believe the government runs efficient healthcare systems in other nations as Michael Moore has told us, and then you see 2 politicians, one of whom is promising “free” government health insurance/care, what would you do ?

We will NEVER even get close to constitutional principles if we don’t make people understand that the government cannot provide “free” anything.

And the best way to do that is to remind them every time they open their wallets. What we have now, the witholding process, does more to encourage this dissonance.


177 posted on 10/09/2007 12:41:28 PM PDT by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: cinives

The biggest problem I see is that all individuals/families should pay some tax. We currently have almost 50% of filers who don’t owe/pay tax - so anything they get from the government is essentially “free”. That MUST change. Those people vote Democrat because the Dems promise more giveaways.
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well you can either tax the poor (which doesn’t make sense if you’re going to give them $ back in the end) or create more rich people


181 posted on 10/09/2007 12:49:14 PM PDT by ari-freedom (I am for traditional moral values, a strong national defense, and free markets.)
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To: cinives
One little historic problem - every country on the planet that has started with an "NRST" has had it turned onto a VAT in just a matter of a few short years.

FTL's just can't get their head around the fact that "all the slow rabbits have already been caught"

189 posted on 10/09/2007 1:05:36 PM PDT by xcamel (FDT/2008)
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To: cinives
Your point about selling to Mexico and thenpurchasing across the internet just means that customs would have to collect the tax, which they do already for any import duties we already have.

So how does customs know what the value of the items is and how much tax to collect?

Customs isn't going to inspect a significant portion of packages going to individuals.

They may try and detect drugs or explosives externally. They may check manifests of large shipments going to businesses, but they won't be collecting taxes on imported goods going to businesses because they won't be taxed until they are sold to consumers. They will have to track imported goods sent to businesses to make sure they are sold as new, not as used items to avoid the tax. Customs doesn't shed any responsibility, they just have a lot more to worry about since there will be a huge incentive to avoid the tax by having individuals purchase things.

I suspect the solution would be to make the shipping company responsible for collecting taxes on imported items being sent to consumers (but not to businesses that will resell them).

Of course if they claim to be running a business out of their home, then how will the shipper know?

All businesses but cash businesses already use POS systems(and we know why they don’t). A few clicks of the mouse and you have sales tax reports. I don’t see any problem with doing the same thing for the Fair Tax.

Sure, it's simple to collect sales taxes and keep track of them. Of course it's simple to have your payroll system deduct income taxes as well. It's relatively simple to figure out business income taxes after the business has done all the accounting they need to file with the SEC as well. The hard part is doing all the accounting work, and while there are strange tax laws they need to know to benefit from, they are a small incremental cost to their accounting costs that they will bear regardless of the tax system.

Every other country imposes import duties on a wide variety of products. We used to, years ago, get most of our federal revenue from the same. Norway, for example, imposes a 400% VAT on imported alcohol.

Sure they do. But those items they tax are a small percentage of the goods that are imported, so the effort to enforce those duties is manageable.

The US taxes alcohol imports as well. Tobacco too.

The biggest problem I see is that all individuals/families should pay some tax. We currently have almost 50% of filers who don’t owe/pay tax - so anything they get from the government is essentially “free”. That MUST change. Those people vote Democrat because the Dems promise more giveaways.

No disagreement from me. Everyone in this country needs to have a stake in the cost of raising taxes. People shouldn't be able to vote in tax increases on other people to benefit themselves.

We will NEVER even get close to constitutional principles if we don’t make people understand that the government cannot provide “free” anything.

Very true.

And the best way to do that is to remind them every time they open their wallets. What we have now, the witholding process, does more to encourage this dissonance.

I'm dating a woman who lives in Canada so I visit there a lot lately, and I've also visited for work some in the past as well.

They pay 14% in sales taxes. They all complain about it, but they also are far more socially liberal on average and think that the government needs to get involved in everything or at least far more things than most Americans I know do.

I don't think the evidence supports the idea that shifting taxes to a sales tax rather than an income tax will make people get more involved with stopping the growth of government.

People see how much the government takes out of their paychecks, and it doesn't keep them for voting in big government politicians.

If you switch to the Fair Tax, you will just have the people that don't pay taxes now voting in politicians that will increase the size of the prebate, and provide more services to them since they receive far more than they pay in.

Politicians will raise the tax rate under the pretense of saving Social Security, and then vote for other programs, that they or another politician will have to "save" at some time in the future.

The poor aren't going to vote against supporters of tax increases in the Fair Tax, because any tax increase automatically results in an increase in the prebate they receive. They will however vote for those who push to raise the poverty level used to calculate the prebate.

196 posted on 10/09/2007 1:36:02 PM PDT by untrained skeptic
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