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A Husband's Efforts Came Too Late
New York Times ^ | October 5, 2007 | John Eligon

Posted on 10/06/2007 12:15:35 PM PDT by yorkie

Carol Gotbaum was already dead by the time her husband, Noah, made frantic telephone calls to the airport where she had been arrested to try to warn the authorities that she was “suicidal” and “alcohol abusive,” the Phoenix Police Department said on Friday.

According to preliminary information from the Aviation Communication Center at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, Mr. Gotbaum’s first call was received at 4:39 p.m., a little more than an hour after his wife had been pronounced dead, said Sgt. Andy Hill, a spokesman for the Phoenix police.

The authorities released a statement Friday night saying that they reviewed all phone calls received by the airport after 12 noon on Sept. 28 and confirmed the time of Mr. Gotbaum’s first call. This confirms as well that Mrs. Gotbaum was dead before that first call.

Transcripts of Mr. Gotbaum’s three calls from New York, released on Thursday as part of a police report on Ms. Gotbaum’s death, provide a chilling account of a husband’s efforts to reach his wife. He had last heard from her hours earlier, and she was upset and angry about missing a connecting flight to Tucson, the transcripts indicate.

They show that Mr. Gotbaum grew frustrated because airport operators were unable to give him information about his wife’s status.

During his final conversation with an airport operator, Mr. Gotbaum said: “I have no idea where she is. I haven’t talked to her. All I know is what you’ve told me and what I imagine has happened.”

What Mr. Gotbaum did not know was that his wife was dead...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: gotbaum
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To: yorkie

Gotbaum’s post-hoc CYA PR is going to make him look worse than if he’d just kept quiet and consoled his poor kids.


41 posted on 10/06/2007 3:03:39 PM PDT by AZLiberty (President Fred -- I like the sound of it.)
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To: dsc
However many issues she had, the cops are way too quick to handcuff people

So some person who is an emotional train-wreck and whacked out on something should not be retrained when going postal? Please!

42 posted on 10/06/2007 3:16:29 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: dsc

[However many issues she had, the cops are way too quick to handcuff people.]

On scene witnesses verified she was yelling, screaming, hitting and scratching officers and making every attempt to break loose. She also yelled she was ‘not a terrorist’. I have not heard she had been accused so. Have you?

And they were “too quick”? They should have tazed her, bro. Maybe she would be alive now.

I haven’t seen her tox reports in the paper (I no longer subscribe to the Republick).


43 posted on 10/06/2007 3:48:42 PM PDT by dbacks (I forgot to pay the rent on my tagline.)
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To: PLMerite

She certainly should not have been left alone. In retrospect her behavior should have elicited a medical response as well as a law enforcement response. People just don’t behave that way for no reason and she should have been held for psychiatric evaluation, but that’s hindsight.


44 posted on 10/06/2007 4:01:52 PM PDT by jwparkerjr (Sigh . . .)
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To: jwparkerjr
Everyone has 20/20 hindsight. Would you care to pay for the extra personnel necessary to provide eyes for all prisoners?

Perhaps her loving hubby, knowing of her alcohol and drug problems should have accompanied her?

45 posted on 10/06/2007 4:58:42 PM PDT by dbacks (I forgot to pay the rent on my tagline.)
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To: Mad Dawg

ah...interestingly enough, a voice of reason...well stated...that pretty much puts this saga of “great expectations” from folks who just don’t have the facts...


46 posted on 10/06/2007 5:05:47 PM PDT by nicko (CW3 (ret.) CPT, you need to just unass the AO; I know what I'm doing- Major, you're on your own.)
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To: PLMerite

{I have no complaint about anything they did from what I’ve read, except for leaving her alone with just enough chain to hang herself.]

I don’t believe she was chained. She was handcuffed from behind with plastic “slip wraps”. This as a common, approved and safe method for most jurisdictions. Very few are able to manoeuver around to bring the tie around the neck and cause choking. I know I can’t.


47 posted on 10/06/2007 5:11:46 PM PDT by dbacks (I forgot to pay the rent on my tagline.)
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To: Mad Dawg
[it will always come up short. It certainly gets my attention that there was no camera in the cell or officer watching a monitor. It would be interesting to know whose budget decision that was.]

I believe the courts have ruled surveillance to be a violation of privacy rights. May be wrong but I think that's the case.

48 posted on 10/06/2007 5:15:14 PM PDT by dbacks (I forgot to pay the rent on my tagline.)
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To: dbacks

In my county we monitor all the holding cells, but the cameras are aimed so you can’t see the commodes or anyone sitting on them. We stopped a suicide (just in time) owing to those cameras.


49 posted on 10/06/2007 5:40:33 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: dbacks
Once you arrest a person you are responsible for their well-being. If that means having to keep an eye on someone who is exhibiting signs of a psychotic break then that’s the burden you have to plan for. I am not faulting them in this particular case. My post specifically said that I knew hindsight was playing a big role in how we are viewing this incident.

I quite agree with you that her family, starting with her husband, should have know it was not advisable for her to travel alone. On the other hand, sometimes people who are just a little crazy under very specific circumstances encounter something that pushes them over the edge.

It will be interesting to see the toxicology report.

50 posted on 10/06/2007 5:58:56 PM PDT by jwparkerjr (Sigh . . .)
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To: dbacks
We got a warning that plastic cuffs can be cut through too easily. I wish I could remember the details. But since I read it I decided plastic cuffs are for "processing" a bunch of people who need to be observed and switched to metal cuffs as quickly as possible.

It was my understanding that she was cuffed behind and a chain went from her cuffs to an eye-bolt on a wall or somewhere.

51 posted on 10/06/2007 5:59:51 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: JustaDumbBlonde
Perhaps they should have called in one of their staff counselors, given her a hug and offered her an overstuffed chair and a cup of Earl Grey to settle her nerves.

Whatever works! And if they had done just as you said, she'd be in rehab and we'd be on the McKinney thread. :-)

52 posted on 10/06/2007 6:14:30 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: dbacks

“I don’t believe she was chained.”

The story keeps changing. Last thing I heard was that she was cuffed and the cuffs were secured to the wall with 2 feet of chain. Somehow or another she ended up dead.

My only disagreement is that she was left unobserved.


53 posted on 10/06/2007 6:40:07 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: grey_whiskers

“Relax, take a deep breath......and your Valium ;-). But by shooting it all out so excitedly like that, it makes people want to write you off as a loonie.”

Then everybody should be so “loonie”! throw the bloody valium out of the window...and get angry, get passion, get the blood up and then make things happen where it counts! (which isn’t here)

Come on grey scream out like a loonie! make people think you are going to go storming out of your living room and kick some ass at the mayors office, at a party fundraiser, at your congressmans office, at your pta, at your church, at your friends house organizing a schoolboard run, etc etc...

People who have power did not get it by taking valiums and spending hours posting to internet forums.

This forum is good for making friends, screaming like loonies, and venting steam.

but lets not confuse venting steam with making change in real life. real life is much much more fun,

lol, valium indeed. (quaaludes are way better anyway. so i’m told.)


54 posted on 10/06/2007 8:37:23 PM PDT by Mark Felton ("Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom...though it cost all you have get understanding" - Prov. 4)
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To: MizSterious

“What would you have done? Let her run amuck in the airport until someone was SERIOUSLY hurt?”

I can’t know, because I wasn’t there. However, there are a number of things I would probably have tried first.


55 posted on 10/06/2007 8:37:57 PM PDT by dsc (There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. Edmund Burke)
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To: Clara Lou

“I’d handcuff her too, and I’m not “the cops.””

Yeah, but you’re a woman.


56 posted on 10/06/2007 8:38:55 PM PDT by dsc (There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. Edmund Burke)
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To: RatSlayer
That’s right, they can’t know what they’re dealing with which is why you can’t chain a person up and then walk off and leave them unsupervised, even if it’s just for a couple of minutes.

What you suggest is little more than a very expensive baby sitter service for the detained. An arrestee is not watched 24-7. The family knew the deceased was ill yet even they assumed she could travel. She seems to have strangled herself which is not related to "care" for oneself and is not remotely related to Undocumented Immigrants. It is human nature to blame someone. If the coroner determines the death a suicide accept the tragic fact. The police are simply not at fault.

57 posted on 10/07/2007 1:24:29 PM PDT by ricks_place
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To: RatSlayer
That’s right, they can’t know what they’re dealing with which is why you can’t chain a person up and then walk off and leave them unsupervised, even if it’s just for a couple of minutes.

What you suggest is little more than a very expensive baby sitter service for the detained. An arrestee is not watched 24-7. The family knew the deceased was ill yet even they assumed she could travel. She seems to have strangled herself which is not related to "care" for oneself and is not remotely related to Undocumented Immigrants. It is human nature to blame someone. If the coroner determines the death a suicide accept the tragic fact. The police are simply not at fault.

58 posted on 10/07/2007 1:24:47 PM PDT by ricks_place
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To: yorkie

A few hours too late....
she should have never traveled alone given her KNOWN history. His effort should have been before he put her on that first plane.


59 posted on 10/07/2007 1:27:10 PM PDT by donnab (saving liberals brains....one moron at a time.)
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To: donnab

From my post #17:

“if he was going to pay $42,000/mo. for her to be in a specific re-hab - why didn’t he spend a couple grand extra to fly her there in a private plane?”


60 posted on 10/07/2007 1:31:28 PM PDT by yorkie
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