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To: Waryone; TheBattman; FormerACLUmember; bannie; srmorton; Ron in Acreage; DouglasKC; toldyou; ...
WRONG! 6 year-old children know it is wrong to assault someone (heck, even my 3 year-old is starting to figure that out). This child will not end up in the penal system for this offense, but just maybe the child will be placed in a more suitable environment. Of course, if the parents do not teach the child that assault is wrong....

Assume that I am a nonverbal low functioning autistic child, I can't speak, can't understand english, and don't recognize you as a person.

Go, teach, come on
Teach me about violence.
Teach me what qualifies as violence.
Teach me about right and wrong
Teach me about time and how it is linear and that I can't go back and do something wrong over and get it right.
Teach me that Violence is wrong and that I have to get my estimates right the first time because I can't go back and fix it later.

Good luck, you'll need it.

You have no idea what you are talking about, I have an autistic son, I have spent tons of money getting him help, it's an uphill battle against TV and cartoons (which he loves) teach that anger and violence are an acceptable response to any social situation.

You guys who get on here and pontificate with little knowledge are dangerous because people might actually listen to you.

The only way for an autistic child to learn "Normal" behavior is to observe it by being included in a class with "Normal" children, My son spent years learning social skills, goes to a class every week where they tech things like taking turns, how to play games with "Normal" children. He had to obtain a certain level of behavior an knowledge before being included in a main streaming program.

If it was an aide who was trained to work with autistic children, she should have known not to turn her back on him when he is stressed. Autistic children do not just go boom with no warning if he was getting over stimulated there are signals. Hand flapping, humming, loud nonsense noises, jumping up and down, running in circles, running into walls repeatedly are common behaviors, of an autistic child who is losing it. These symptoms are not subtle. Any competent person who has had a two day course on working with an autistic child would know when one is getting ready to "Pop" and should be trained to deal with them before they do. (Take them some where with less stimulation)

You guys assume the worst of the parents with no evidence. I know lots of parents of autistic children, they all sacrifice huge to help their kids go as far as they can. The parents who are not willing to take on such a daunting task just give their kids to the state, and pretend they never had "Johnny".

KantianBurke: Big mistake. Retards and nutcases do NOT belong with normal kids.

So, are you 100% Average? Do you know anyone who is completely normal? do you belong with normal people?

Waryone: I don’t believe the teacher’s aide was in charge of autistic children. She was just helping with normal children. The autistic child was main streamed in with the normal ones. I agree that the autistic child should not have been placed with the normal children. He should have been placed where there are people trained to handle his situation.

A main streaming classroom is such a place. the training doesn't take that long, I know I have both taken and given such training.

Waryone: Although I agree it is a shame the child has to go through the penal system, it seems as though the only effective way for any thing of benefit to occur today is to go through the justice system. It may not be right, but it is the way the system is set up to work today.

I can guarantee you that this will not help anyone involved in this case.

Ramius: you get the gold star for this thread.

For the record, My son is 11, when he was 4 started with a speech therapist, and a special preschool for autistic children, then went to a special private school for autistic children. He has been at a special public school with autistic classes and normal classes, he has to earn the right to have GYM and recess with normal kids. He works hard and is now one of the top kids in his grade. He may never be in the "Normal" class, but all the kids there know him and most like him, he works hard at that too.

Those of you with the intolerant attitudes here, examine your hearts, is this what God would have you do, have you say Say, have you be?

I hope and pray that you never have to learn the way I am learning about autism. Unfortunately, the odds are that someone you know will have autism and you will regret your words here as you learn.
72 posted on 09/23/2007 11:15:55 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

Yours is a difficult road. But as you must by now know... there are rewards along that road too.


73 posted on 09/23/2007 11:23:25 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: DelphiUser

My best friend has a child who suffers from Asperger’s syndrome. He is only slightly autistic. Before he was ever diagnosed, I had him in a group of other boys his age. He was not violent but there was no way he would ever learn anything from the other children. He sat tucked up and would not speak or react to anyone, not even me, and he had known me and my son for eight years. Before this day, he had never behaved in any way that seemed out of place. But then he was not a violent one.

If there is training for teachers and their aides, they need to be provided with it. It does not matter what the child’s situation is, no other student should be subjected to a child who exhibits violent behavior. It may be wonderful for the single child with the problem to be among normal children, but it is not right for a normal child on the receiving end of a violent child’s behavior.

There is one thing I know about autistics, they are not all the same, they don’t react the same and they should not all be treated the same. I don’t believe that all autistic children should be held apart from others, just those who deal with people violently.

Some slightly autistic children can be mainstreamed with little trouble. With guidance, some others may be able to be mainstreamed. But none who are violent should be mainstreamed. It is not fair to the other children. If they can be taught non violent ways of expression then they may be mainstreamed.

You say your child likes watching cartoons. Perhaps someone can develop a program utilizing television, maybe even using cartoons, that show them the proper way to behave. Once they learn that, then perhaps the violent ones can be slowly mainstreamed into a class of normal children.

This blanket ‘all should be accepted’ into a normal class or ‘all should be rejected’ is not right or helpful. Each child should be evaluated on an individual basis. This particular child has shown that he has difficulty in a regular classroom. Whether the teacher’s aide needed to be trained, or the child was not ready to be mainstreamed, now is for the court to say. If more attention was paid to these children as individuals fewer people would have to go through these unfortunate situations.

I know it must be difficult for you. Though autism has been around for some time, the number of children to have autism has exploded of late. The systems have not yet developed to handle all of these autistic individuals. Whether it be doctors, medical insurance, or the school system, there just does not seem to be any easy answers for families who have to deal with autism. I have seen my dear friend struggle with this as her son was not diagnosed until he was almost eighteen. I pray for her and her family regularly. I will be praying for you as well.


77 posted on 09/24/2007 12:11:14 AM PDT by Waryone (Constantly amazed by society's downhill slide.)
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To: DelphiUser
You have no idea what you are talking about, I have an autistic son, I have spent tons of money getting him help, it's an uphill battle against TV and cartoons (which he loves) teach that anger and violence are an acceptable response to any social situation

With all due respect, why don't you get rid of your TV if it's teaching him violence? Or maybe put in DVDs/Video's that teach better values?

85 posted on 09/24/2007 4:37:48 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DelphiUser

God bless you. It’s a long hard road not made any easier by the cluelessness that comes from the profound internet experts.

I’ll keep you in my prayers. I don’t even have to ask if you need them. I already know. You, as I have gotten a crash course & learned the hard way. Hope you continue to find things that work for your child. He is important too. Just as much as the “normal” ones ;)


95 posted on 09/24/2007 6:11:11 AM PDT by Sue Perkick (And I hope that what I’ve done here today doesn’t force you to have a negative opinion of me….)
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To: DelphiUser

“....she should have known not to turn her back on him when he is stressed.”

This is rather scary. You’re saying the adult should know better? Then who is responsible for the safety of the children in the classroom, cafeteria, or on the playground? Does every child in the school have to be taught to recognize when these special needs children are stressed....and not to turn their backs on them?

I have two grown children who are considered “normal.” That’s difficult enough to raise “normal” with all the hopes and dreams a parent has for a child to grow to be responsible adults in society. And, of course, a parent will always be concerned for the safety of their child.

Believe me, my heart goes out to you and to parents of children with special needs. That has to be one tough road! I do wish the best for you and your child.

But I still believe special needs children should not be thrown in with other children. To me, it’s saying to the child, “Sink or swim...I wan’t you to be normal.” And they can’t handle it. I don’t think it’s fair for them, and it’s especially not fair to the other children who are in school to learn! The other children (and parents) should not have to fear for their safety because they can’t turn their backs on a “special” child.

I met the family of the child I described in my post. They are wonderful! In fact, the mom was a good friend of my daughter’s. When my daughter told me they were moving this year, my thoughts were, “How sad...she’s losing a fun-loving friend, but at least my grandson’s class won’t be disrupted every single day.”

Also, your child should not be watching cartoons. Yes, they are violent! 30 years ago several of us parents and concerned teachers did a study and found that small children do not discriminate between cartoon characters and humans in an act of violence...smashing each other on the head with a bat...getting flattened by a car, a rolling rock, etc. They see the cartoon character getting up from the accident without a scratch. They associate this with a human.

Of course, we wrote to the TV channels, to no avail. In fact, I see there are more violent cartoons and programs now than ever. And what makes me shudder is that most people in America think it’s horrible that nudity is shown. We should be more concerned with violence....on TV, in movies, and in video games.


103 posted on 09/24/2007 6:51:09 AM PDT by toldyou
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To: DelphiUser
Assume that I am a nonverbal low functioning autistic child, I can't speak, can't understand english, and don't recognize you as a person.

Such a child should not be 'mainstreamed' into a regular public school class. Such a child should be in a class with a teacher who is trained specifically to handle them.

105 posted on 09/24/2007 6:54:51 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: DelphiUser

Wonderful response. It is a struggle everyday but with rewards the majority of people will never know. When I hug my son I feel so close to God I could just cry.


153 posted on 09/24/2007 10:30:59 AM PDT by New Perspective (Proud father of a 3 year old son with Down Syndrome)
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To: DelphiUser

Nothing here but the sound of applause.


227 posted on 09/24/2007 2:38:01 PM PDT by ktscarlett66 (Face it girls....I'm older and I have more insurance....)
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To: DelphiUser

OK, you know much more than we do about autism.

I will, however, disagree with you on a few things.

You seem to think that the whole thing should be set up for your child. There are other children, and their safety, learning and needs must be considered. The world does not have to bend for your son.

Also, if your son learns from violent cartoons, take them away. If your son can learn behavior from watching tv, he can learn his good behavior this way.

I expect you to love your child. I love mine. I don’t, however, expect the world to move over for their special needs.


249 posted on 09/24/2007 4:51:17 PM PDT by bannie
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To: DelphiUser
Assume that I am a nonverbal low functioning autistic child, I can't speak, can't understand english, and don't recognize you as a person.

A child in that position has ZERO business in a regular classroom, or even a standard public school.

And did the article describe the child in question as such?

267 posted on 09/24/2007 5:26:39 PM PDT by TheBattman (I've got TWO QUESTIONS for you....)
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To: DelphiUser
DelphiUser wrote:
Assume that I am a nonverbal low functioning autistic child, I can’t speak, can’t understand english, and don’t recognize you as a person.

Go, teach, come on
Teach me about violence.
Teach me what qualifies as violence.
Teach me about right and wrong
Teach me about time and how it is linear and that I can’t go back and do something wrong over and get it right.
Teach me that Violence is wrong and that I have to get my estimates right the first time because I can’t go back and fix it later.

Courtesy Comment:

Excellent comment and I love the above excerpt.

Many are commenting and showing their true ignorance of Autism and how children react in different situations.

I wonder how many of those commenting about Retards and Nut Cases can be classified by themselves as compassionate conservatives...GEEESHHHH.

Some of these same lame comments I have heard in person from people who should know better.

It is easy to slime those who can not fight back.

I am a member of the Autism Society of America, San Diego chapter.

I have contact on a weekly basis with the San Diego County Regional Center.

I wish you luck and the best for your son.

279 posted on 09/24/2007 6:14:17 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: DelphiUser

Sorry - but these kids belong in specialized environments.

The resources simply aren’t there to do justice to your kid.

Do you realize how many different types of disabled kids are being dumped into regular ed classrooms? It’s becoming a damn zoo! I’ve got autistic kids eating their clothes, making animal sounds, shouting out, monopolizing conversations with irrelevancies and on and on.

Do you have any regard for parents who just want a normal environment for education.

Yes - this is harsh. But I’m disgusted by the mess created by the Disabilities Act. If teachers could be frank, we’d tell you that mainstreaming is a disservice to all concerned.


313 posted on 09/24/2007 7:55:03 PM PDT by Scarchin (+)
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To: DelphiUser

This post rocks Delphi and for those wondering if I put my money where my mouth is on this, my youngest son who is typical goes to my son’s old preschool as a ‘typical child’ ie one of those children Delphi was talking about that model behavior for the children with disabilities that is appropriate for children their age.

What is the statistic now on autism? 1 in 150? Chances are someone here has been exposed to a child with autism—most probably didn’t know it even though they have pitchforks and rally cries of putting them all in an institution.

You are right, we have learned the hard way about autism, I don’t know about you, but spiritually it has made me a better person. God Bless you Delphi.


713 posted on 10/04/2007 1:34:53 AM PDT by Aingeal
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