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To: shibumi; RipSawyer; Alamo-Girl; MHGinTN; hosepipe; b_sharp; Coyoteman
Contrary to your supposition, RipSawyer, the most open-minded people I have run into, who have been willing to challenge their own assumptions about the nature of creation and their cherished scripture have been people of faith.

Amen to that, shibumi! We try to understand the Book of Creation as it actually is, not as we would have it to be; i.e., as a reduction to our own preferred theory or level of intelligence and experience. We know the Book of Creation is much more than that! That Man is not the Measure.... He is only an observer.

182 posted on 09/24/2007 7:23:20 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein)
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To: betty boop; shibumi
>Contrary to your supposition, RipSawyer, the most open-minded people I have run into, who have been willing to challenge their own assumptions about the nature of creation and their cherished scripture have been people of faith.

Amen to that, shibumi! We try to understand the Book of Creation as it actually is, not as we would have it to be; i.e., as a reduction to our own preferred theory or level of intelligence and experience. We know the Book of Creation is much more than that! That Man is not the Measure.... He is only an observer.

You folks actually believe that "people of faith" are willing to challenge their assumptions and beliefs? Sorry, I don't believe a word of that.

Take a look at the following Statement of Belief from the Creation Research Society. They don't seem to be very willing to let anything challenge their beliefs, not even evidence that is all around them (and there are many more such examples on the web).


The Creation Research Society has the following on their website:

The Creation Research Society is a professional organization of trained scientists and interested laypersons who are firmly committed to scientific special creation. The Society was organized in 1963 by a committee of ten like-minded scientists, and has grown into an organization with an international membership.

CRS Statement of Belief

All members must subscribe to the following statement of belief:

1. The Bible is the written Word of God, and because it is inspired throughout, all its assertions are historically and scientifically true in the original autographs. To the student of nature this means that the account of origins in Genesis is a factual presentation of simple historical truths.

2. All basic types of living things, including man, were made by direct creative acts of God during the Creation Week described in Genesis. Whatever biological changes have occurred since Creation Week have accomplished only changes within the original created kinds.

3. The great flood described in Genesis, commonly referred to as the Noachian Flood, was an historic event worldwide in its extent and effect.

4. We are an organization of Christian men and women of science who accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. The account of the special creation of Adam and Eve as one man and one woman and their subsequent fall into sin is the basis for our belief in the necessity of a Savior for all mankind. Therefore, salvation can come only through accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior.


185 posted on 09/24/2007 7:41:30 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: betty boop; shibumi; RipSawyer; MHGinTN; hosepipe; b_sharp
We try to understand the Book of Creation as it actually is, not as we would have it to be; i.e., as a reduction to our own preferred theory or level of intelligence and experience. We know the Book of Creation is much more than that! That Man is not the Measure.... He is only an observer.

Truly, the words of God are spirit and must be spiritually discerned.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63

Jesus spoke in parables to hide Truth in plain sight.

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. – Matt 13:10-13

When man attempts to discern Scripture by reason alone, he invariably anthropomorphizes God into a small 'god' his puny, mortal mind can comprehend.

This, IMHO, is the most insidious of all the "observer problems."

191 posted on 09/24/2007 8:05:40 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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