Posted on 09/14/2007 10:53:26 AM PDT by neverdem
Truly, the difference between slavery and serfdom is rather blurry, though chattel slavery of the Roman mold was markedly worse.
Decent piece, though.
People who use them, though, can always say that we won't know how much of a decline we're in until it's too late.
But the thing is that the analogies are used by people who think things are getting out of control.
Democrats pick them up now and we can scoff at them. If they were in office and we weren't it might be different.
Did you go to Harvard? That’s the kind of history they teach. In many respects the Renaissance was a period of decline, as a result of the Black Death. the Muslim invasion of Europe, the decline of papal authority, and the Hundred Years War.
There were peoples living among ruins made with more advanced technology than those then-contemporary peoples had available to themselves. Writing was preserved largely due to the work of: monks and clergy; Byzantine (East Roman Empire) people; and....duh, duh, duh, MUSLIMS in the roughly half of the Roman Empire which fell under Muslim rule. Some things, such as Greek fire, now have only conjectures as to what they were, because so much was lost.
Some technological progress was made (though even things such as cannons and the printing press were imported technologies), but--as you've pointed out--the Renaissance was largely when the European peoples of the former Roman Empire re-learned Roman technology and then advanced from there.
The Vandals certainly did sack Rome in 455.
The Renaissance didn’t bring about a rediscovery of Roman technology. That has been on-going for several hundred years. The foundation of modern sciencve was laid during the Middle Ages. There were more machines in western Europe than in all the Roman Empire of the past. Greek science had been making its way into Europe since the 11th Century, with the beginning of the Crusades and the restoration of the old trade routes.
| You could argue that the United States sent colonist to the territories contiguous with the United States. The Philippines was granted independence after the United States was unwilling to grant the territory statehood and make a bunch of little brown brethren American citizens. The BBC history page has an interesting section on Roman history. And here's an article specifically comparing the Roman Empire and the United States. The piece isn't that great or accurate (the author didn't seem very versed in American history), but it's the closest of the articles to this topic. Other somewhat relevant and interesting ones are about: |
Suspect buwaya has a strong point that Europe did pick up pace before the Renaissance, but that the fall of the Western Roman Empire did lead to an initial collapse--or almost collapse--in European society that took centuries to rebuild.
Where Rome had a heavy reliance on slavery, medieval Europe had a heavy reliance on serfdom (in the case of eastern Europe, lasting up to last century).
So they did.
Decades of the government getting more and more bloated, taxes going higher and higher, regulation on top of regulation, until one day it just all grinds to a halt.
Read the accounts of the parasites in the Bourbon courts and tell me they're any different from our legislators and bureaucrats of today.
“The analogy isn’t based on foreign military exploits, but on the fall of a decadent empire.”
Exactly. Anyone who studies history knows that there is a rise and fall to every nation/civilization. Can it be avoided?
Yes. “If my people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from Heaven and forgive their sin and will heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:l4
OMGosh...just had to ask how you can listen to Coast to Coast?? When it comes on the radio I can’t turn it off fast enough. Bleh. I’m sorry, but the people calling in to that program are INSANE!!
True, although the lot of a serf, at least in the West, was better than that of a Roman agrarian slave, IMHO. Plus, serfdom was introduced fairly late in the "Dark Ages" and in the West began to fall apart after the Black Death. Agreed serfdom lasted into the 19th Century in much of Eastern Europe, but that's one reason they were so far behind economically.
Thanks for the link.
Well, I did find out that the BookTV presentation is available over at C-Span;
it uses Real Player.
While the video is just a couple of frames per minute on my dial-up,
the audio is just fine.
Here’s the link.
http://www.booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=8328&SectionName=&PlayMedia=Yes
Right, key the classical music.
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