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To: Delacon
Wonderful research, but the basic beginning premise is wrong.

When I first read the Resolutions, I did not understand this subtle point (nor did I know that in 1798, Madison had tried to explain to Jefferson that this was wrong.)

Madison himself said the Constitution is a compact James Madison, Report on the Virginia Resolutions

it was constantly justified and recommended on the ground that the powers not given to the government were withheld from it; and that, if any doubt could have existed on this subject, under the original text of the Constitution, it is removed, as far as words could remove it, by the 12th amendment, now a part of the Constitution, which expressly declares, "that the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

No where in the contract is the federal government given the ability to tell a State it must stay in the Union, and that the federal authority had no ability to sit in judgment of the States.

However true, therefore, it may be, that the judicial department is, in all questions submitted to it by the forms of the Constitution, to decide in the last resort, this resort must necessarily be deemed the last in relation to the authorities of the other departments of the government; not in relation to the rights of the parties to the constitutional compact, from which the judicial, as well as the other departments, hold their delegated trusts. On any other hypothesis, the delegation of judicial power would annul the authority delegating it; and the concurrence of this department with the others in usurped powers, might subvert forever, and beyond the possible reach of any rightful remedy, the very Constitution which all were instituted to preserve.

Please provide Madison's explanation to Jefferson that the idea the Constitution was a compact [treaty] was incorrect.

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The Constitution itself can be used to alliterate how limited federal power really is.

Article 4 section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

And on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive means the STATE governments, not the federal one.

At the same time it is properly provided, in order that such interference may not wantonly or arbitrarily take place; that it shall only be on the request of the state authorities:otherwise the self-government of the state might be encroached upon at the pleasure of the Union, and a small state might fear or feel the effects of a combination of larger states against it under colour of constitutional authority;
William Rawle

"The federal government, then, appears to be the organ through which the united republics communicate with foreign nations, and with each other. Their submission to its operation is voluntary: its councils, its sovereignty is an emanation from theirs, not a flame by which they have been consumed, nor a vortex in which they are swallowed up. Each is still a perfect state, still sovereign, still independent, and still capable, should the occasion require, to resume the exercise of its functions, as such, in the most unlimited extent.
St. George Tucker View of the Constitution of the United States – 1803 [paragraph 337]

Until the State asks for assistance, the federal government has no legitimate authority inside the State.

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Once there, the federal authority is subject to the authority of the State.

Article VI. - The United States
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

State Constitutions

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
Section 24 - MILITARY SUBORDINATE TO CIVIL AUTHORITY
The military shall at all times be subordinate to the civil authority

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CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF KANSAS
BILL OF RIGHTS
Sec. 4. The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

***

CONSTITUTION OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS
PART THE FIRST A Declaration of the Rights of the Inhabitants of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Article XVII. The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.

***

THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF NEVADA
ARTICLE. 1. Declaration of Rights
Sec. 11. Right to keep and bear arms; civil power supreme.
2. The military shall be subordinate to the civil power; No standing army shall be maintained by this State in time of peace, and in time of War, no appropriation for a standing army shall be for a longer time than two years.

***

ALL the States have them. Look them up for yourself.

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Divided sovereignty is concurrent jurisdiction, and it doesn't magically make the federal government supreme. It is a residual sovereignty the States never gave away just because they signed the compact.

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The federal government is directly vested with sovereignty of the people of the United States.

According to the first legal treaties after Ratification of our current Constitution...the one APROVED for printing and distribution BY CONGRESS, has this to say on that subject:

In the United States of America the people have retained the sovereignty in their own hands: they have in each state distributed the government, or administrative authority of the state, into two distinct branches, internal, and external; the former of these, they have confided, with some few exceptions, to the state government; the latter to the federal government.

Since the union of the sovereignty with the government, constitutes a state of absolute power, or tyranny, over the people, every attempt to effect such an union is treason against the sovereignty, in the actors; and every extension of the administrative authority beyond its just constitutional limits, is absolutely an act of usurpation in the government, of that sovereignty, which the people have reserved to themselves.
View of the Constitution of the United States , Preliminary Remarks

How odd. Tucker said the federal power was strictly EXTERNAL and any attempt by the federal government to interfere with the Rights of the People in the States was treason.

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Guess is just goes to prove the saying about victors writing the history books.

1,064 posted on 04/23/2009 1:07:17 PM PDT by MamaTexan (If you don't think government IS the problem, you're not looking hard enough)
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To: djsherin

A let-me-know-if-you-get-tired-of-being-pinged....PING!


1,065 posted on 04/23/2009 1:08:44 PM PDT by MamaTexan (If you don't think government IS the problem, you're not looking hard enough)
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To: MamaTexan
Madison himself said the Constitution is a compact James Madison, Report on the Virginia Resolutions

Madison also said, "...I do not consider the proceedings of Virginia in ’98-’99 as countenancing the doctrine that a state may at will secede from its Constitutional compact with the other States. A rightful secession requires the consent of the others, or an abuse of the compact, absolving the seceding party from the obligations imposed by it."

Until the State asks for assistance, the federal government has no legitimate authority inside the State.

The Constitution also says Congress shall have the power "for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;" Nothing there about needing state or local approval before doing so. Washington sent in marshalls and then declared martial law and called up the miltia to suppress the Whiskey Rebellion, all without the prior approval or request of the governor of Pennsylvania.

Once there, the federal authority is subject to the authority of the State.

What? Article VI declares the supremecy of the Constitution over any state and local laws, not the other way around.

Guess is just goes to prove the saying about victors writing the history books.

And about losers writing the myths.

1,067 posted on 04/23/2009 1:20:27 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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