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To: PJ-Comix
Lawrence O'Donnell is absolutely right.

Pigs, for example, are every bit as intelligent, loving, and capable of pain as are dogs, and as unwilling to be killed or tortured.

And what about killing and eating lambs and calves? Just think about what that means.

For many years, some of my relatives, who are avid hunters (I do not hunt or fish), have denounced milk-fed veal because it is so utterly cruel. I.e., even those who often hunt for sport denounce such cruelty. "If you ever visit a place where they prepare calves for such slaughter," I have been told--but I have not visited such a place--"It will break your heart." The calves are kept in the dark, bound so they are unable to move, and bled repeatedly to keep them anemic--or so I am told. Just think about that.

Life is full of hardship, and it is necessary for us to harden our hearts to much of it so that we can survive (this is the lesson of the classic The Yearling). But do we want to harden our hearts excessively--or unnecessarily?

And at what point do we cease being human and become brutes?

Personally, I don't like killing animals or eating them, but I will if circumstances necessitate it--for example, if my family or I--or anyone for that matter--should be hungry enough or in need--but I will do it myself--or at least recognize what is happening and what it means and not close my mind to it. Denial is the most dangerous thing in the world. That's why it's important to be brutally honest with yourself, even if you can't be honest with anybody else.

As it is--I do not hunt, fish, or eat animals.

I do not enjoy killing them--or subjecting them to pain--even by proxy.

My wife and I are both vegetarians, and this is the reason.

What Vick did was wrong, and he should be punished--but no draconian punishment such as years in jail--maybe a few months or something like that.

People slaughter animals every day.

What about the greyhound dogs that are killed when they are no longer capable of racing?

What about the animals who are harvested to keep the ecology in balance?

In view of all this, the public outcry against Vick is bizarre.

Are there some animals who deserve protection because they are appealing to humans and others who can be slaughtered and subjected to pain because they are not? Perhaps so, but let's be honest about it and not allow ourselves to descend into denial about it.

55 posted on 08/25/2007 7:15:28 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("History is not just cruel. It is witty." ~Charles Krauthammer)
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To: Savage Beast
Lawrence O'Donnell is absolutely right. Pigs, for example, are every bit as intelligent, loving, and capable of pain as are dogs, and as unwilling to be killed or tortured.

There is a BIG difference between raising an animal for meat and slaughtering them, and raising a dog to fight (sometimes to the death) and because it loses a fight you beat it to death or hanging it. Most animals for meat products are killed quickly and as humanely as possible. I do not see how you compare a pig which is raised for either medical research or meat, verses a dog which is raised for companionship and protection.

61 posted on 08/25/2007 7:26:37 AM PDT by Bommer (Global Warming: The only warming phenomena that occurs in the Summer and ends in the Winter!)
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To: Savage Beast

There is an order to nature.

The dog has set himself aside as man’s companion, protector, servant and most of all, friend. Dog and man have a special relationship that is unparalleled anywhere in the natural world. Mutual admiration over the generations has built a bond that is now pretty unbreakable.

You may equate dogs to pigs and juxtapose morality in killing either but your thin argument doesn’t even address the fact that dog is man’s FRIEND and will be until the end of time. Pigs and cows are man’s food and will be until the end of time. If you cannot tell the difference between friend and food, I really don’t know what to say.

I contend it is far worse to turn our backs on our faithful friends that have been with us since the beginning than to kill a deer and eat it.


66 posted on 08/25/2007 9:01:04 AM PDT by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: Savage Beast
Are there some animals who deserve protection because they are appealing to humans and others who can be slaughtered and subjected to pain because they are not? Perhaps so, but let's be honest about it and not allow ourselves to descend into denial about it.

I don't think anyone IS in denial about it. As a culture, we have raised dogs above other animals. They are useful workers and loving companions and it doesn't hurt that they're cute.

Mostly, I think we try to strike a balance between using animals for what we need, and doing that in a way that causes them as little suffering as is reasonable.

We eat animals for food. Anyone who would kill animals SOLELY for sport, leaving the animal to rot is universally condemned. Hunters try to kill as quickly and humanely as it can be done.

We thin wild animal herds because they pose dangers to us, and overpopulation harms them as well. Too many deer in any particular area will eventually starve.

There are greyhound rescue organizations out of the realization that killing them at the end of their career is cruel.

I'm sure that slaughtering plants are not pleasant places. The animals likely do suffer and live in less than ideal conditions. That is done to provide us with meat at reasonable prices. There is a trade off.

Michael Vick tortured animals for entertainment and money. Therein lies the difference.

69 posted on 08/25/2007 9:39:43 AM PDT by Dianna
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