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To: cinives
And please - abysmal salaries for teachers ? That canard has been debunked so many times I’m surprised it’s still around in circles other than union strongholds.

Some of the research showing how "well paid" teachers are has been contested, and not always by those supporting unions. You might try reading this, for example.

88 posted on 08/23/2007 5:55:00 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: Amelia

You quote a liberal blog ? Oh boy. The writer is not an economist or knowledgeable in accounting or finance, so his analysis is a bit suspect on the subject of pay.

But OK, from the blog:

The very first sentence: “Teachers learned last week that they are overpaid.” Greene and Winter didn’t say they were overpaid, they merely pointed out that they’re not underpaid, either. Not being an economist, this writer did not put any value on 2 months of vacation. Yet, if you talk to teachers, it’s one of the things they enjoy most about their jobs. Many studies have noted that almost all professionals would accept being paid a bit less if they had an option for more free time. It’s one of the reasons women are routinely paid a bit less than men, because women typically take more time off to be with family.

And more: “Greene and Winters can be extraordinarily glib: “Metropolitan areas with higher teacher pay do not graduate a higher percentage of their students than areas with lower teacher pay.” “Metropolitan areas” sound like such sophisticated places. In Greene’s and Winters’ universe, poverty, asthma, untreated eye, ear, and teeth problems, malnutrition, single-parenthood, inadequate prenatal care, low birth-weights, gangs and other achievement-lowering characteristics of “metropolitan areas” don’t exist.”

We are supposed to substitute compassion for fact here ? The very first thing teachers unions do is cry that they’re underpaid every time they’re asked how to improve schools. Greene and Winter pointed out that they’re not underpaid. Then this apologist for teachers tries to excuse a high failure rate among high school graduates as being entirely out of a school’s control; it’s all the fault of kids, parents and society. People all over the world, with the same or worse issues than those found in NYC, learn to read and do math better than our kids in situations far more dire than we will ever see here. These are just excuses for poor schools. No country spends more on public education than we do.

The fact is that teachers are, in general, grossly undereducated compared with other professions. An accountant must have graduated with a major in accounting and to get anywhere in their field, earn a CPA license. A teacher ? They take an education degree, some with a few more courses in science or math or another concentration, and they get a teaching degree for elementary ed or secondary ed. On the coasts (and maybe elsewhere in the US), if they take a 1 year master’s degree in education, they get a salary jump over other teachers. Teachers in general (and there are always exceptions), are the least educated of all professionals. Look at all the teachers who cannot pass standardized tests for their profession - in Massachusetts wasn’t it 33% the one year they tried ? And yes, other professions than teachers must do continuing ed thruout their working lives, just the same as teachers.

Let me get real world in a subject with which I am very familiar. In every suburban school district outside Philadelphia, teachers with 10 years are making about 60k per year. By retirement time, at 25-30 years, most of these same teachers are making 100-128k per year (depending if they have a masters degree). So around here, a 25 year teacher with a masters degree is making 117k per year for 10 months of the year, and at age 47 can retire with a pension of around $60k per year.

I call that well paid by any standard.


116 posted on 08/24/2007 10:29:15 AM PDT by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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